| Emily Carroll |
My FOX RED Lab puppy will be arriving in 2 1/2 weeks (*yippy!*). Her Royal
Highness Queen Snot (a 6 lb. tabby & white year old cat) has yet to meet a
dog.
Any suggestions, besides locking them in a bathroom together and waiting for
the puppy to holler "OUCH!" when sharp-foot meets nose?
--
Emily Carroll
http://www.geocities.com/diamonds_i...eyes/index.html
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003
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| jake huffman |
Emily Carroll wrote:
> My FOX RED Lab puppy will be arriving in 2 1/2 weeks (*yippy!*). Her Royal
> Highness Queen Snot (a 6 lb. tabby & white year old cat) has yet to meet a
> dog.
>
> Any suggestions, besides locking them in a bathroom together and waiting for
> the puppy to holler "OUCH!" when sharp-foot meets nose?
Please do the right thing and have your puppy sterilized before bringing
him home.
--
jake
> --
> Emily Carroll
> http://www.geocities.com/diamonds_i...eyes/index.html
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003
>
>
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| The Puppy Wizard |
Please do the right thing and explain HOWE COME???
"jake huffman" <jakehuff@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:cd94093d442e39c3044396dded1fe186@free.teranews.com...
>
>
> Emily Carroll wrote:
> > My FOX RED Lab puppy will be arriving in 2 1/2 weeks (*yippy!*). Her
Royal
> > Highness Queen Snot (a 6 lb. tabby & white year old cat) has yet to meet
a
> > dog.
> >
> > Any suggestions, besides locking them in a bathroom together and waiting
for
> > the puppy to holler "OUCH!" when sharp-foot meets nose?
>
>
> Please do the right thing and have your puppy sterilized before bringing
> him home.
>
> --
> jake
>
>
> > --
> > Emily Carroll
> > http://www.geocities.com/diamonds_i...eyes/index.html
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003
> >
> >
>
>
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| jake huffman |
The Puppy Wizard wrote:
> Please do the right thing and explain HOWE COME???
She said the colour of her lab is red like a
fox and that's not in the standard. Many breeds
are going to crap because of irresponsible owners
like Emily who think they should breed their dog
because it is pretty. and too, my wife is the assistant
manager of an animal shelter and she had to put
down two litters of lab puppies last week and I
had to listen to her bitch about it.
[jake]
> "jake huffman" <jakehuff@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:cd94093d442e39c3044396dded1fe186@free.teranews.com...
>
>>
>>Emily Carroll wrote:
>>
>>>My FOX RED Lab puppy will be arriving in 2 1/2 weeks (*yippy!*). Her
>
> Royal
>
>>>Highness Queen Snot (a 6 lb. tabby & white year old cat) has yet to meet
>
> a
>
>>>dog.
>>>
>>>Any suggestions, besides locking them in a bathroom together and waiting
>
> for
>
>>>the puppy to holler "OUCH!" when sharp-foot meets nose?
>>
>>
>>Please do the right thing and have your puppy sterilized before bringing
>>him home.
>>
>>--
>>jake
>>
>>
>>
>>>--
>>>Emily Carroll
>>>http://www.geocities.com/diamonds_i...eyes/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>---
>>>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>>>Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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| badgirl |
"jake huffman" <jakehuff@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:ed52d843ca4900d68c4bcd2905e43b84@free.teranews.com...
.. Many breeds
> are going to crap because of irresponsible owners
> like Emily who think they should breed their dog
> because it is pretty.
I just have a small question...
How is asking how to introduce a puppy and a cat equate to being an
irresponsible owner? I didn't see her asking how she could breed her
dog in there anywhere.
Jen
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| jake huffman |
badgirl wrote:
> "jake huffman" <jakehuff@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:ed52d843ca4900d68c4bcd2905e43b84@free.teranews.com...
> . Many breeds
>
>>are going to crap because of irresponsible owners
>>like Emily who think they should breed their dog
>>because it is pretty.
>
>
>
> I just have a small question...
>
> How is asking how to introduce a puppy and a cat equate to being an
> irresponsible owner? I didn't see her asking how she could breed her
> dog in there anywhere.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. I thought
I saw Emily say she was getting into breeding or
showing labs. I don't think anyone should be breeding
dogs while my wife is killing puppies who don't
have a home.
the sooner she castrates her puppy the better.
[jake]
> Jen
>
>
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| badgirl |
"jake huffman" <jakehuff@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:1ebedfca963b1e355e483eb961ebdd65@free.teranews.com...
>
>
> badgirl wrote:
> > "jake huffman" <jakehuff@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> > news:ed52d843ca4900d68c4bcd2905e43b84@free.teranews.com...
> > . Many breeds
> >
> >>are going to crap because of irresponsible owners
> >>like Emily who think they should breed their dog
> >>because it is pretty.
> >
> >
> >
> > I just have a small question...
> >
> > How is asking how to introduce a puppy and a cat equate to being
an
> > irresponsible owner? I didn't see her asking how she could breed
her
> > dog in there anywhere.
>
>
> I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. I thought
> I saw Emily say she was getting into breeding or
> showing labs. I don't think anyone should be breeding
> dogs while my wife is killing puppies who don't
> have a home.
>
> the sooner she castrates her puppy the better.
>
> [jake]
>
>
>
I don't remember that from the original post in this thread, it may
have been in another one *shrug*
I do agree though that people should adopt before breeding. It's
really sad that so many dogs have to die because people will breed or
buy from a puppy farm/pet store before adopting from a rescue or
shelter.
I read something recently that in shelters alone the pure bred rate is
about 25% or higher. I also spoke to a woman from a rescue a couple of
weeks ago that told me that most of the dogs coming from homes rather
than animal control are needing to be put down ;(
Don't ask me where I'm going with this, it's just some stuff I've been
thinking about lately that makes me sad ;(
Jen
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| Chris Smith |
jake huffman wrote:
> >>are going to crap because of irresponsible owners
> >>like Emily who think they should breed their dog
> >>because it is pretty.
>
> I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone.
In that case, some decent socialization is in order. The phrase
"irresponsible owners like Emily" is actually quite blatantly offensive.
Most people are going to have a hard time believing that you said it,
and yet didn't mean to offend anyone.
--
www.designacourse.com
The Easiest Way to Train Anyone... Anywhere.
Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
MindIQ Corporation
|
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| Rocky |
jake huffman said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> Many breeds
> are going to crap because of irresponsible owners
> like Emily who think they should breed their dog
> because it is pretty.
WTF? Where did this come from? Certainly not from this post or
any of the others that Emily has written here over the years.
Years.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
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| The Puppy Wizard |
HOWEDY badgirl,
"badgirl" <chgobadgirlspamtrap@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:w9ZYa.68197$Vt6.23385@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
> I do agree though that people should adopt
> before breeding.
Yeah. You'd think ETHICAL BREEDERS would
call for a moratorium on BREEDING till the pupulation
problem is under control, maybe a year, maybe two or
three years, of NO ETHICAL BREEDING.
> It's really sad that so many dogs have to die
> because people will breed
emily is fixin to breed. We've got LOTS of breeders here.
> or buy from a puppy farm/pet store
Those are the dogs who need to be rescued from
the ETHICAL BREEDERS WHO'D KILL THEM.
> before adopting from a rescue or shelter.
NO! You've bought the Nazi party line, jen. It's not
the puppy millers and pet shops who are KILLIN
dogs, it's HOWER DOG LOVERS... who HURT
CRATE and KILL, HOWER BEST DOGS.
> I read something recently that in shelters alone
> the pure bred rate is about 25% or higher.
They're MURDERNING dogs cause they WON'T STOP
HURTING THEM and trying to get HOWET calling THAT,
training.
> I also spoke to a woman from a rescue a couple of
> weeks ago that told me that most of the dogs coming
> from homes rather than animal control are needing to
> be put down ;(
That's on accHOWENT of MISHANDLING.
EVERY THING THE EXXXPERTS TEACH
US IS DEAD WRONG.
That's HOWE COME they warn you not to TRUST
The Puppy Wizard.
> Don't ask me where I'm going with this,
That's O.K., these are some very complex problems.
The Puppy Wizard knows where WE'RE goin with it.
That's HOWE COME HOWER DOG LOVERS WARN
YOU NOT TO TRUST The Puppy Wizard.
HE'S FIXIN TO PUT THESE SHELETER / RESCUE
MURDERERS, HOWETA THE BUSINESS OF HURTIN
AND KILLIN HOWER BEST DOGS.
The EXXXPERTS are the CAUSE of the problem.
> it's just some stuff I've been thinking about lately that
> makes me sad ;(
That's gonna make you feel like S/N is the solution.. it ain't.
> Jen
They blame the dog for the results of their pronged spiked
pinch choke and shock collars aversives and crates.
Here's a dog who'd have been MURDERED,
by DOG LOVERS, was it not for finding The
Puppy Wizard:
Starr's Story
To whom it may concern,
My name is Crystal Arcidy and I am the proud owner of a
beautiful 3 year old white German Shepherd named Starr.
I am writing to inform you of a training method that is
truly amazing. Starr is by nature very cautious and
fearful and because of this and my not knowing how
to handle it she became environmentally shy as well.
Before Starr came into my life I never would have
believed that a dog could be the way she was
unless it had been badly abused or trained to be
aggressive.
Now I'm finding out more and more that there are lots
of dogs with serious behavior problems who were never
abused, but mishandled.
Before I tell you about my experience with Jerry Howe,
Doggy Do Right, and the Wits End Dog Training Technique
I would like to relate to you Starr's story so you'll have a
better understanding as to what I was dealing with:
Starr was three months old when I brought her home from
a local pet shop. A few days later a friend came by to see
her and that was when I first saw that Starr was by no
means friendly.
She was so shy she tried to pull away and hide. I was told
that dogs go through a "fear stage" and thought that was all
I was dealing with. But after a week or two Starr began barking
protectively at guests and neighbors from inside the house.
The only way I could stop the barking, and later howling, was
if I picked her up and held her.
Outside Starr's behavior was not protective it was horribly
fearful. It got to the point that when I would ask, "You want
to go outside?" Starr would run the other way and dodge me
so I would make her go.
She went out only to relieve herself and then she'd dash back
to the house. I could not take her for walks and she wouldn't
even sit on my back deck without crying.
Starr was afraid of other dogs, people, cars, loud noises, open
spaces....everything. I was sure that she had the potential of becoming
a fear biter and that worried me.
I spoke with an amateur dog trainer who said that shepherd's
are sometimes fearful as puppies, especially females, and
that training and socializing would help. She said I could bring Starr
to the vet and just sit with her so she could watch the other dogs. But
Starr was a nervous wreck in the vets.
She would get in a corner and shake terribly. It didn't seem
like it was helping at all with my dog's anxiety and I asked
the vet what to do to get her over her fears.The doctor
recommended a trainer/behaviorist and we called and set
up a meeting. And so I took Starr to her first trainer at six
months old.
She was terrified. The trainer assured me that he could
'get her through' her fears. He explained to me how training
would lessen Starr's anxiety and build confidence.
Because Starr was so timid he wanted to start out with
clicker training. He said it was the best form of training for
shy dogs.
He instructed me to get a thin three foot stick to be the focus, the
object being Starr would learn to follow the stick. Every time she
touched it with her nose she got a click and a treat.
After I got Starr home it only took about a minute for Starr to get the
idea. But these results were restricted to inside my house. When I took
Starr outside or to her lessons she was just too nervous to care about
eating. The reward was not worth it.
All Starr wanted was to get back to the house, where she
felt safe. When the trainer realized that Starr was too
uncomfortable at his place he suggested we meet and
work at my house.
It was then that he saw that Starr was not going to
progress using the clicker training. [Forcing food into
her mouth didn't make her want to eat it] So he reverted
to conventional methods.
*(The "BALANCED TRAINER" IOW, knows WHEN to HURT... jh.)
We started using a flat collar but with all the pulling Starr
would do the trainer quickly advised me to purchase a choke
chain. I did so and he showed me how to use it. I was very
hesitant but he assured me that I could not hurt the dog.
We continued working in an area Starr was pretty
comfortable in, then proceeded out to the street. Starr was
very scared and would bolt, whine, shake horribly and grind
her teeth. All of which got corrected by a quick, sharp jerk on the
chain and a firm "No!"
Of course now I know that these firm corrections were just
creating more anxiety for my dog. But at the time it seemed
to make sense.
After seeing how afraid Starr actually was on the street the
trainer told me to get some Serene-um, an herbal product
that would calm her down. It took the edge off her fear, but
I had to give her beyond the dosage recommended for her
weight. The trainer said that was fine. He also told me that
putting her on adult food would help. That way she wouldn't
have as much energy that was just being turned into nervous
energy and making her worse. I changed her food and he
later recommended senior food. I decided against that.
The trainer told me not to speak reassuringly when Starr
was scared because she would think she was being praised
for being afraid, that I wanted that behavior. He told me never to
praise her for barking because it would encourage aggression.
When Starr would bark at the neighbors dog aggressively
I was to force her into a submissive down, the Alpha Rollover,
which I was never able to maneuver.
I told the trainer that Starr was still uncontrollable even with the
choker. Her fear seemed more important than the pain
she experienced from the collar. He suggested getting her
a Gentle Leader. Its worn around the dog's head. I'm sure
you're familiar with the product. This gave me more control
over her bolting but when she got spooked by something
she would pull away and reared up like a wild horse.
It was very difficult to get her to calm down even a little after she
had gone to this extreme. I later found out that I was misdirected on
how to use the Gentle Leader.
After about seven months of this Starr had made very little
progress. She knew all the commands and would do them
perfect when calm, but the fear and anxiety were still there
and still very much in control of her.
The trainer thought she was all right and told me he was
happy with the results. At that point I was hardly listening to anything
he said. I knew he was trying to help but I also knew that Starr was
beyond him and I had already set up a meeting with another trainer, one
that came highly recommended.
The second trainer referred to her place as doggy boot camp
and said that kind of discipline and structure is what dogs,
especially dogs like Starr, really needed. She was a breeder
of German Shepherds and several of her dogs were used in
movies and as therapy and protection dogs.
*(Our "ETHICAL" breeders... jh.)
She told me that Starr needed to get away from me, her
'security blanket' and learn to be on her own. She told me
that when I got Starr back she would be a totally different dog.
I left Starr for eleven days with this trainer. When I went to
pick her up I was informed that Starr had been hiding for the
first three days of her stay. But the trainer was happy with
her progress.
When Starr was brought out I was told to ignore her until
the trainer said it was okay and even then I couldn't pet
her or kneel down to see her. [I still don't know why.] My
formerly 65 lb. German Shepherd looked like a Greyhound
she was so thin.
But she did look much more confident. Her face seemed
relaxed, but her tail was tucked up under her. When I asked
about that the trainer said it was nothing. She said her tail
was not suppose to curl up the way it did. I was then informed that I
needed to buy a pinch collar and leather leash.
Starr was too strong and determined in her pulling for me to
get by with just the choker. [ This trainer laughed at the Gentle Leader
and said it was not a training tool.]
The trainer showed me how to use the collar and I flinched as
she did and Starr let out a sharp cry.
The trainer noticed my reaction and insisted that she wasn't
hurting my dog, saying that I have to stop treating Starr like a 'piece
of china', saying that she was a strong dog and needed to be told who
was boss.
I accepted what she said and she proceeded to teach me
all that she had taught Starr. She used the word 'Here' instead of
'Come' saying that it sounded nicer to the dog and more inviting. I was
told that its best if when called Starr comes right up close, attaining
physical contact.
Everything seemed to be going well, though I wouldn't have
said she seemed like a different dog, until the trainer left to get
Starr's old collar for me. When she returned Starr lunged and barked
aggressively.
It took me completely by surprise. I did not know why she
was acting so aggressive. The trainer took the leash and
gave Starr a strong reproof for that and explained to me
that some dogs [big nasty ones, she said] acted like that
when the owners came to get them because they were
afraid, on seeing the trainer, that she would take them
away from their owners again.
This trainer also instructed me to 'punish' Starr by ignoring
her for a half hour or so after she had been corrected for
something very bad or if she did not do good working for
me one day. She said that dogs remember when they do
bad and that she'd learn to try harder to please me.
So I took my skinny little shepherd home and for two months
worked with her everyday exactly as I was told. Starr's
anxiety was still profound and she still was not happy to
go for a walk or to stay outside.
She was more confident, but only in areas of aggression,
territorialism, and being possessive of me. [She did not like
it when my cat came into my room.] I called the trainer to ask
about barking collars and she told me which one to buy.
After I got it she showed me how to use it saying it must be
tight. She said it would help with Starr's aggression as well as the
barking. And for a while it was much quieter in my house.
I did not like the way the collar sometimes made Starr cry
and I really didn't like how if my two dogs were real close
the other dog's bark would sometimes set it off. But it was
only temporary, I thought. I always checked for irritation on
my dog's neck but one day when I took the collar off I saw
that Starr had sores on her throat.
I kept the collar off until it was completely healed and then
used it only when I felt I had to, and only on the lowest setting.
*(HOWE COME all these stories sound alike??? jh.)
It wasn't long before I put it away and never used it again.
I made arrangements to bring Starr back to her second
trainer to work together and in exchange I would help taking
care of the other dogs -cleaning and feeding and such- but
it never worked out and I am so glad it didn't!
My next attempt to find help was after I read a pamphlet on
Ttouch. I thought, finally, this will help! I spoke to the Ttouch
practitioner and set up an appointment. She came to the
house and evaluated Starr.
She told me it would most likely take many sessions to
get Starr over her issues. The first thing she had me do
was change from the pinch collar to a flat collar the
second thing she had me do was put a T-shirt on my dog.
She likened the feel of shirt to getting a hug. Starr did seem to calm
down when she was wearing the T-shirt. Looking back I realize that
although Starr was calm she was far from happy and relaxed.
I wanted to work outside, thinking it would be easier on
my dog since she got so upset when people came into
the house. But the Ttouch lady insisted we work inside
the house, saying that she had to get used to people
coming inside.
I went along with what she said, but after the aggression
brought out by the second trainer and the pinch collar
Starr was very difficult to handle.
Next the Ttouch person showed me a few different touches
to do on Starr. She demonstrated the touches on a large
stuffed animal I had because she couldn't get close to
Starr let alone to actually touch her.
She said that dogs keep all their stress in their tail and I
was instructed to do Ttouch on her tail. She showed me
what she called an ear slide that would help with car-
sickness and it worked.
Then she talked a lot about calming signals, yawning,
sighing etc.... Starr was uncomfortable with this strange
way of petting and cried a lot, but the lady informed me
that was normal.
The touches are designed to change the cellular memory and
Starr knew that this was not petting. It was a 'conscious touch'.
The weirdest thing was an effort to make Starr aware of her
body. She demonstrated on the stuffed animal [she was still
unable to touch Starr] how to wrap ACE bandages around
the animal's body so that as they moved they would feel it and
be aware of themselves. And then there was the hair elastics
around my dog's feet to give her a better awareness of her feet because
Starr was nervous walking on hard,smooth floors.
To address the problem I was having with Starr pulling on the
leash the Ttouch person instructed me to take the middle of
my six foot leash in my left hand and bring it up above
Starr's left shoulder, then place the length of the leash real
low across her chest and bring the handle up above her
right shoulder and hold it in my right hand.
The plan was to keep her front legs from being able to move
fast enough to pull. But Starr easily backed out of this
arrangement and took off, bolting to the end of the lead.
I told the lady what was happening and she recommended
a harness.
After Starr was wrapped in bandages, wearing a T-shirt, a
muzzle and a harness we took her out-side.
Starr was not happy. I was not happy. But the Ttouch person
said it would help so we did it. After a month of this I gave up on
Ttouch and went back to the pinch collar with which I had at least some
control.
*(Sound typical, doesn't it... jh.)
I asked a friend to help simply by coming over and trying to
make friends with my dog. I kept a muzzle on Starr most of
the time and eventually my friend got to pet her, though Starr
was not comfortable with it.
My friend suggested that I give Starr Passion Flower and I tried it.
*(An EXCELLENT sleep aid... jh.)
At this point I had already tried a number of different herbs
and herbal mixtures that were especially for dogs.
The herbs didn't make enough of a difference and I thought
about putting her on Prozac or something like it. I decided
against it because of fears of side affects and was back
where I started, except worse because Starr was now
showing signs of aggression after working with that second
trainer.
I found another dog training place this one claimed to be
the 'Disney World for dogs'. I went down to talk to the
people there before putting Starr through it. One of the
trainers there told me that if my dog was over two years
old and still the way she was then she'd be like that forever.
I was extremely discouraged by that, but I wouldn't allow
myself to believe it was true. Needless to say Starr never
went to those trainers.
Ever since I realized that Starr was not a normal dog I've
been searching for a way to help her get over her fears.
It became the most important thing to me. I was sure that I
would find answers and I knew I couldn't give up. I knew I
couldn't live with her the way she was and I knew I couldn't
give her away so I just continued searching.
I read training and behavior books one after the other.
Some were very discouraging in what they had to say
about shyness in dogs. The last book I bought was
called "Help For Your Shy Dog" and it gave an example
of a dog in recovery from fear and anxiety and it had
taken the owner/trainer five years to get to that point!
And the dog was still a work in progress!
When I first decided to try Mr. Howe's machine I was
hopeful if not confident. I did not want to speak to him
at first because I did not want to hear what I heard from
the other trainers. I did not want to trust another trainer
only to be disappointed in the end.
I found Doggy Do Right on-line at a friend's house, got
the information and decided to give it a try. I noticed
within a few days, if that long, that Starr was calmer
when the machine was on. Things would happen that
would normally upset her and she'd give one or two
barks and then give up.
When I saw her acting calm I'd look over at the machine
and every time, at first, it was on. After a little while of
using the machine along with the training technique
I'd check to see that the reason for her self-controlled
barking was that Doggy Do Right was on and I was
amazed to see that it wasn't.
I was like, "Wow, she's being so good and the thing
isn't even on!" The tiny part of my crazy dog that had
some self-control, or some semblance of ease, was
growing stronger.
The training and the machine were allowing Starr to
realize that not everything in the world is going to kill her.
As far as the training technique, it's gentle, fast, and
completely positive. Mr. Howe's approach to training is
so different from any other form of training that even after
reading his training manual I had to call and speak with
him in order to really understand his method and the
reasoning behind it and how to apply it with particular
situations with Starr.
I had many questions and misconceptions because
of all the other training information I got and he took
time to explain everything.
He told me that all Starr's behavioral problems were
connected and that properly handling each one would
help the others. All the little things that I was ignoring
because, in comparison to Starr's main problems, they
seemed irrelevant I started working on, each thing she
worked through helped to deal with the next.
Mr. Howe was very helpful and after putting a flat collar
back on my dog and working with her a few weeks I
saw a change in her general attitude. I was glad that
I was not to use a food treat with this system, knowing
that if food was the incentive it wasn't going to work for
my dog.
Starr was much happier and relaxed without the pinch
collar and her barking was much more controllable.
Starr, however was too difficult for me to handle and I
was not proficient at this new form of training and I
ended up taking her to meet Mr. Howe and he worked
with her.
I was surprised that Jerry was able to pet my dog let
alone work with her the first day. For one week he
had her and the change in Starr was incredible!
She was happy and relaxed. She was willing to work
and she was much more comfortable being around
cars and people. We met on three occasions during
that week to work together and I learned so much.
The first time we got together to work Starr was much
more content and happy. By the end of the session
Starr was willing to go with Jerry in his car.
This impressed me because of what happened when
Starr thought the second trainer she had was going to
take her away from her family.
But she was comfortable with Jerry and the reason
for that was the way he treated her. I was amazed
while, on the last occasion that we worked together,
people walked by my dog without upsetting her.
I was expecting her to bolt away but she didn't. She
was calm and confident as they passed, which, for her,
was a huge change.
The Wits' End Dog Training method is based on
distraction and praise. It focuses more on the thought
process than a dog following commands.
The dog psychology Jerry has figured out and built
his method around is amazing.
I learned from him how to handle the leash in a way
so as to keep my dog calm. He explained that because
of all Starr's past experience with training she was always
afraid of being corrected. Tension on the leash is what
caused her to spook so I now keep the leash nice and slack.
He taught me how and when to praise in order to
encourage thought and instill confidence and trust.
His technique using the sound distraction and
exuberant praise gave me the answer to the endless
barking and the cat-chasing and all without stressing
out my hyper-sensitive dog.
Starr is a much happier dog and she has so much
more confidence in herself and in me as her handler.
I will never use any other form of dog training on any
dog I ever own/train.
Mr. Howe's approach to dog training has ended up
saving many mislabeled "bad dogs," turning them
into great pets and working dogs. I am recommending
this and only this form of training to anyone with dogs
no matter what it is they want to accomplish with their dogs.
As you now know I have tried everything I could find
to help my extremely nervous, but wonderful dog and
this is the only thing that has really made a difference
in Starr's behavior and her general attitude.
As a dog lover and the owner of a so-called "lost
cause dog" I feel I must share with you my experiences
and advocate this system.
There is nothing better for disturbed dogs and no
better way of preventing bad behavior then positive,
gentle training. I will recommend nothing else and
never again will I use any other form of training,
discipline and behavior modification.
Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
Crystal Arcidy
|
|
|
| The Puppy Wizard |
HOWEDY chris,
~emily is a dog abuser. Ask her abHOWET HANGIN dogs according to her koehler
book.
"Chris Smith" <cdsmith@twu.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.199e11aabfa77d2f9898bf@news.altopia.com...
> jake huffman wrote:
> > >>are going to crap because of irresponsible owners
> > >>like Emily who think they should breed their dog
> > >>because it is pretty.
> >
> > I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone.
>
> In that case, some decent socialization is in order. The phrase
> "irresponsible owners like Emily" is actually quite blatantly offensive.
> Most people are going to have a hard time believing that you said it,
> and yet didn't mean to offend anyone.
>
> --
> www.designacourse.com
> The Easiest Way to Train Anyone... Anywhere.
>
> Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
> MindIQ Corporation
>
|
|
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| The Puppy Wizard |
"Rocky" <2pups@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93D1E5E9CAEF7australianshepherdca@IP...
> jake huffman said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > Many breeds
> > are going to crap because of irresponsible owners
> > like Emily who think they should breed their dog
> > because it is pretty.
>
> WTF? Where did this come from? Certainly not from this post or
> any of the others that Emily has written here over the years.
> Years.
>
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
Can you tell the TRUTH from a LIE?:
> > > Jerome Bigge writes:
> > > I do know that hitting, hurting
> > > your dog will often make the
> > > dog either aggressive or a fear
> > > biter, neither of which we want to do.
And then we got, matty! Follow his discussion!
This is what's called, a liar and dog abuser:
> > And neither does anyone else,
> > Jerome. No matter
> > what Jerry Howe states.
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This I've Suggested It To Quite
A Few Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY
TIME The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer,
33 Years Experience.
You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for her coment above
regarding her success with The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy
Separation Anxiety / Bed Time Calming Technique (STSA/BTCT)?
Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z, who commented
that his bed time calming technique was quite similar?
> > You're scary Marilyn.
> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed
> > individual. I feel very sorry for her
> > and her family.
"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.
> > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> > doubt, please provide a quote (an
> > original quote, not from one of Jerry
> > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> > shows a regular poster promoting or
> > using an abusive form of training.
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."
You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is COURTEOUS?
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?"
Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.
"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time, spray one squirt
directly into the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled
with this but just ignore him and continue your normal behavior."
You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"
You think HOWER pal mikey is playin with a full deck?
Yeah. When I preload my dog's mouth with bitter apple,
suppose I don't get used to being stupid and cruel, mikey?
Then HOWE do I train my dog if I can't HURT it?
"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed
Her Opposite Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side, Leaned On Her,
Smartly Growled Into Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her
Ear," sionnach.
Oh, THANKS, sinofabitch...
And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context,
because you are full of bizarro manure."
"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer.
You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies HURT all
their lives like HOWE HOWER dog lovers PREFER to
HURT THEIR DOGS?
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...
terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."
Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should knee the dog in the chest, step
on its toes, throw him down by his ears and climb all over it like a raped
ape growling into his throat and bite IT on his ears, or leash pop it on a
pronged spiked pinch choke collar or pop him in the snout with the heel of
your palm.
"BethF" <dawg@alaska.com> wrote in message
news:ugc7us32ki5fb9@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Frank" <flmarcher@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:d2f1624e.0206101912.2980eb03@posting.google.com...
> > dfrntdrums@aol.comMURK-OFF (Leah) wrote in message
news:<20020610173326.01953.00000597@mb-fx.aol.com>...
> > > >"brianev" brianev@attbi.com wrote:
> > > > I ENJOYED reading your book, and
> > > > AGREED with what you had to say.
> > > > I find it sick to hear what people
> > > > do with their dogs.
:
> > > Keep in mind that everything he says that
> > > the regular posters of this ng do to their
> > > dogs are lies.
:
> > > All of it. Every last bit.
:
> > All of it?
:
> > Ear pinching?
:
> > Shock collars?
:
> > Spiked chokers?
:
> > The regulars lie more in their denials than
> > Howe does in his accusing of them.
:
> Uh, Frank? Who do you see denying anything?
> Its quite interesting that a newbie like yourself
> would see denials when everyone has Jerry
> killfiled and therefore don't even read his posts,
> let alone respond to them.
"Rocky" <2dogs@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?
> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.
> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
You think matty's playin with a full
goddamned deck?
matty's NOT a liar and dog abuser.
Isn't that true, Marilyn?
Of course not, but THIS IS:
"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.
"Marshall Dermer" <dermer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1@uwm.edu...
> >Di,
> I don't believe you mentioned a particular
> kind of training. If you are interested in
> training retrieval behavior than do
> consider our own Amy Dahl's:
> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a
> Well-Mannered, Obedient and
> Enthusiastic Gun Dog in 10 Minutes a
> Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl
You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"
"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A
Dog I Do Not Believe There Is A Single
Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A
Dog Is Anything But Destructive,"
LUCKY thing CHIN CHUCK absolutely don't
mean slap the goddamned dog, we'd look like
a conspiracy of LIARS and DOG abusers if
CHIN CHUCK DID mean SLAP the dog.
"I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get
a good working dog by making them unhapper,
fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty dahl.
DOES THAT SOUND LIKE THE TRUTH?
> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
> few regulars here who are either ill-
> tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall
Or HOWE about HOWER just plain CRUEL
STUPID and ABUSIVE DOG ABUSERS,
professor SCRUFF SHAKE?
amy lying frosty dahl continues:
"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to
progress to striking them more sharply"
BUT NOBODY DOES THAT HERE...
"Try pinching the ear between the metal
casing and the collar, even the buckle on
the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will
give in but will squeal, thrash around, and
direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch"
OR ATTACKING HIS ABUSER.
"You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished
This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome"
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
frosty dahl.
"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.
From: Marshall Dermer (dermer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
In article <38CC0C43.94E2DDD1@earthlink.net>
rhurwitz@earthlink.net writes:
>> -snip headers etc.
>> Yes. you're right, I really should find
>> the book.. they don't have these books
>> in the local pet stores I frequent, where
>> do you find Koehler?
> I got a nice large print copy from
> Amazon.com
>Richard
Please try Powell's Books in Portland
Oregon. Their URL is:
http://www.powells.com/
Unlike Amazon.com, Powell's keeps both
new and used books on its shelves. You
can order books via e-email.
Koehler Method Of Dog
Training
by Koehler, W R
Published by HOWELL BOOK
HOUSE (0876056575,
==================================================
======
Here's some quotes and some methods right
outta your koehler book professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and scream "NO!" into its
face for 5
seconds:"
"The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962). New York:
Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."
Hanging
"First, the trainer makes certain that the collar
and leash are more than adequate for any jerk
or strain that the dog's most frantic actions could cause. Then he starts
to work the dog deliberately and fairly to the point where the dog makes his
grab.
Before the teeth have reached their target,
the dog, weight permitting, is jerked from
the ground.
As in coping with some of the afore-mentioned problems the dog is suspended
in mid-air.
However, to let the biting dog recover
his footing while he still had the strength
to renew the attack would be cruelty.
The only justifiable course is to hold him
suspended until he has neither the strength
nor inclination to renew the fight.
When finally it is obvious that he is
physically incapable of expressing his
resentment and is lowered to the ground,
he will probably stagger loop-legged for a
few steps, vomit once or twice, and roll
over on his side.
The sight of a dog lying, thick-tongued,
on his side, is not pleasant, but do not
let it alarm you
THE REAL "HOOD"
"If your dog is a real "hood" who would
regard the foregoing types of protest as
"kid stuff" and would express his
resentment of your efforts by biting,
your problem is difficult -- and pressing.
"Professional trainers often get these
extreme problems. Nearly always the
"protest biter" is the handiwork of a
person who, by avoiding situations that
the dog might resent, has nurtured the
seeds of rebellion and then cultivated
the resultant growth with under correction.
When these people reap their inevitable
and oftentimes painful harvest, they are
ready to avail themselves of "the cruel
trainer" whose advice they may have
once rejected because it was incompatible
with the sugary droolings of mealy-
mouthed columnists, breed-ring biddies,
and dog psychologists who, by the
broken skins and broken hearts their
misinformation causes, can be proven guilty
of the greatest act of cruelty to animals
since the dawn of time.
"With more genuine compassion for the
biting dog than would ever be demonstrated
by those who are "too kind" to make a
correction and certainly with more disregard
for his safety, the professional trainer
morally feels obligated to perform a "major
operation."
"Since we are presently concerned with
the dog that bites in resentment of the
demands of training, we will set our
example in that situation. (In a later
chapter we will deal with the with the
much easier problem of the dog that
bites someone other than his master."
Are we havin FUN yet?
Got a lite, professor SCRUFF SHAKE?
The Puppy Wizard. <} : ~ ) >
|
|
|
| sighthounds etc. |
On 9 Aug 2003 04:36:56 GMT, Rocky <2pups@rocky-dog.com> wrote:
>jake huffman said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
>> Many breeds
>> are going to crap because of irresponsible owners
>> like Emily who think they should breed their dog
>> because it is pretty.
>
>WTF? Where did this come from? Certainly not from this post or
>any of the others that Emily has written here over the years.
>Years.
It's just another example of why it's wise when subbing onto a
newsgroup to read, get the feel of the ng, and get to know the
regulars a little, before jumping in with one's opinons.
Mustang Sally
|
|
|
| The Puppy Wizard |
"sighthounds etc." <greypighound@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:dqu9jv88rl9trg49gbuec57vdlt56sfrg8@4ax.com...
> On 9 Aug 2003 04:36:56 GMT, Rocky <2pups@rocky-dog.com> wrote:
>
> >jake huffman said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> >
> >> Many breeds
> >> are going to crap because of irresponsible owners
> >> like Emily who think they should breed their dog
> >> because it is pretty.
> >
> >WTF? Where did this come from? Certainly not from this post or
> >any of the others that Emily has written here over the years.
> >Years.
>
> It's just another example of why it's wise when subbing onto a
> newsgroup to read, get the feel of the ng, and get to know the
> regulars a little, before jumping in with one's opinons.
>
> Mustang Sally
>
Please Report To The Director Of Mentally Ill ALL STARZ Activities
Coordinator To Fully Enjoy HOWER group.
> lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
> For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
> pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
> When he barks, use the line for a correction.
>
>
>>- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
>>
>>Lynn K.
>
>
> ================
>
>
>
>>lynn kosmakos (Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic,
>> depression) will "put down a biter
>> as fast as anyone" yet claims to
>> be a saintly dog rescuer
>
>
>>Lynn K. wrote:
>>
>>"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
>>one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
>>schedules and duties causes a great deal of
>>scheduling overhead.
>>
>>And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
>>volunteers get the meaningful experience that
>>they work for.
>>
>>Someone has to be responsible for that
>>Volunteer Program, and it is best done
>>by a non-volunteer."
>>
>>Lynn K.
>>---------------------------------
>>
>>"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
>>every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
>>effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
>>older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
>>
>>Should I have refused to groom them?
>>
>>Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
>>had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
>>
>>Lynn K.
>>--------------------------------------
>
Is that a MENTAL CASE or NOT?
Here's a partial list of the rest of HOWER MENTAL CASES:
here is an update, including our latest nutter, Jim Sabatke
RPD* Mentally Ill AllStaRz as of 7/4/03
-----------------------------------------------
MENTAL ILLNESS IN RPD*
Mental illness is a public issue in these newsgroups. People are always
running around calling other people mentally ill and diagnosing their
illnesses. I think it's only fair that we have an accurate list of who
is and who isn't mentally ill, so that we can avoid any
misunderstandings and promote group harmony.
Updated list as of 7/04/2003:
list of confirmed or suspected mentally ill (crazy) Regulars
Most of whom are women or homosexuals
=======================================
MaryBeth
MVP (most valuable psycho)
Has contributed greatly to the annual profit
(super psycho results at several large pharmaceutical corps
bitch lunatic has taken virtually every mentally ill (crazy)
queen of the drug treatment in the book, and then some:
mentally ****ed prozac, zoloft, amitryptiline, Buspar, Xanax,
in the head effexor, paxil, HRT, wellbutrin, tranquilizers,
clomid,
has suffered from or been:
suicidal, agoraphobic, tidal waves of PMS,
mood swings, turned into a hermit, bloated,
just real angry, hubby afraid of her, high
blood pressure, divorced, "raving bitch"
"zoloft zombie" for four years, "living
through layers and layers of gauze," chain
smoker, buzzing, weight gain, fatigue,
terrible dry mouth, dull headaches, fuzzy
brain, lack of concentration..etc.
severe depression, severe insomnia, Panic
ALL the time, crying, not sleeping, you name
it...etc...
MaryBeth (on being seriously f'd in the head
aka mentally ill) aka cuckoo! kuckoo! ding! ding! ding!
aka a superpsychotic bitch from hell
"I know for a fact I went thru years of
being overly sensitive, being a b*tch,
being self centered, being self pitying,
you name it, I was a wreck and I ran over
everyone in my path."
"<G> I do know the power of meds, especially
on a long term basis, and it's not pretty.
You become another person, if it's not the
correct med for you.
--All the best,
MaryBeth
"Yup Diane, I am taking Zoloft, and my
Rheumatologist told me that taking
Ultram with it can cause seizures."
"I have all the symptoms.I am suicidal at
times (cyclical) have severe insomnia,
'crawly' skin etc. I have an appt to see
my doc next Friday to test for menopause."
--MaryBeth
"I noticed that antidepressants cut libido
into the dead zone and I had no real emotions,
like not laughing at funny stuff, couldn't cry
either.....except about my suicidal thoughts
(but at the time I thought there was no other
way out)."
--MaryBeth
"Hi, new to group, just starting Clomid today.
I talked with RE and pharmacist re: zoloft (50
mg daily) and ineraction with Clomid. They
reported none. Not sure about the prozac tho.
Gonna poat a new message to intorduce
myself :)"
--MaryBeth <still feeling like herself> <G>
"I wasted about 10 years of my life, and lost
many many treasured ppl and things. Please
don't do the same. (((((((SCOUT))))))))))
--MaryBeth
"Slowly but surely my depression got worse and
worse. They put me on meds for it, and all
along kept telling me to wait on the TKR, as
'it really wasn't that bad.....yet". HA!"
The depression got so bad, and lots of other
things happened and my ex and I would up
divorced four years after our move. It was
horrible. The hardest thing I have eve gone
thru"
--MaryBeth
Theresa Willis (paxil, depression, robot displacement)
shelly couvrette OCD, depression, drugs to be named later
(familial mental illness, possibly related
to family bed) obsessively starves her
dogs according to friends, family,
strangers and 3 different vets, but
not herself
lynn kosmakos (Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic,
depression) will "put down a biter
as fast as anyone" yet claims to
be a saintly dog rescuer
Leah Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her
chronic mental problems
Tara Green was on antidepressants for a few years
prior to her marriage. During her
marriage, she learned a lot:
"With the therapist I saw during my
marriage I learned that some
situational depressions are masked as chemical
simply because of our too human ability
to prolong the impact of the causal
situations indefinitely"
Sounds like more denial, see leah
Tara is also a drunk who has also had
problems with other substances
TARA on being a drunk/substance abuser:
"Tara (who had some problems with quite a
few substances as well, but who thinks they
are separate issues.....so which camp does
that put me in???)"
"Believe it or not, some people don't have
a problem with drugs even though they are
alcoholics. I'm not one of
those people, but they do exist."
aka, tara has problems with both
Kevin Michael various mental illness drugs, started with
Vail zoloft, didn't like that, then went to
antidepressant, stopped after sufficent
side effects, now on SSRI and in therapy
Furpaw (SSRI, cognitive therapy)
Chris Jung (Prozac and Welbutrin, cognitive therapy)
Charlie Wilkes drugged out, crazy, ****ed up all his
life, Christ the **** he's been through
including psych wards and electroshock
treatments but now pulling down major cash
as a business consultant. Triumphing over
adversity, with a damn good life and a
well trained dog (very much unlike Leah)
Karen DuChateaux suffered from clinical depression for years
aka Karibear until some drug or something brought her out
of it. Some of her best friends "are
certifiable" and have various degrees of
psychoses. Familial mental disability.
Refuses to say whether or not she is
currently using drug or cognitive therapy
for mental illness.
Mike "DumbOxDumb" threatened non violent dog expert Jerry Howe
Dufort (pending) with Mike's fully armed US Army Platoon.
Threatened to bring his platoon to Jerry's
HOWSE. also OCD (obsessed with Jerry's posts)
Jim Sabatke Jim is currently on Effexor which he takes
because of his depression/mental problems.
Like many of our mental cases, Jim has had
trouble finding the right med(s) to keep him
from going kuckoo!! kuckoooo!!! or getting
the "brain shivers"
From: Jim Sabatke (jsabatke@execpc.com)
Subject: Re: anyone using Effexor?
alt.support.depression.medication
Date: 2002-11-29 20:25:16 PST
EFFEXOR
"I'm on 375 mg/day and it has worked
wonders for me. The only down side is
that my blood pressure has elevated
somewhat; oh and if I miss a dose by a
couple of hours the "brain shivers" can
be really bad.
Good luck!
Jim"
"I switched from Paxil to Effexor about
5 months ago. I tapered off of the Paxil
and tapered onto the Effexor at the same
time."
Jim
"After several years on Effexor IR, my
pdoc tried switching me to XR. I
experienced fairly severe Effexor
withdrawel until I went back to the IR."
Jim
<YOUR NAME GOES HERE>
(please proudly add your name and the drugs/disorders specific to you,
if you are also mentally ill). If we all come forward, we can help
each other with our problems. Remember, mental illness is nothing to
be ashamed of. It's not your fault if you have a defective brain which
may cause you to act like an extreme hypocrite and/or idiot and/or
robot without your being aware of it).
Also, please notify us if you are *not* mentally ill, and have been
added to this by mistake, so we can make our corrections and remove
you from the crazy person list.
--
mental health weekly
===========================================
|
|
|
| jake huffman |
sighthounds etc. wrote:
> On 9 Aug 2003 04:36:56 GMT, Rocky <2pups@rocky-dog.com> wrote:
>
>
>>jake huffman said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>>
>>
>>>Many breeds
>>>are going to crap because of irresponsible owners
>>>like Emily who think they should breed their dog
>>>because it is pretty.
>>
>>WTF? Where did this come from? Certainly not from this post or
>>any of the others that Emily has written here over the years.
>>Years.
>
>
> It's just another example of why it's wise when subbing onto a
> newsgroup to read, get the feel of the ng, and get to know the
> regulars a little, before jumping in with one's opinons.
Well,
I've been popping in occasionally for a few
months, and it seems that Emily is dead set on
breeding, and now she's got a non standard Lab.
She wants to become a breeder and she has a whole
page of imaginary breedings at her website, which
is kind of disturbing to me. I don't think Emily
should be breeding dogs. What's the big deal
about that?
I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
you'd be singing a different tune?
[jake]
> Mustang Sally
>
|
|
|
| jake huffman |
Rocky wrote:
> jake huffman said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
>
>>Many breeds
>>are going to crap because of irresponsible owners
>>like Emily who think they should breed their dog
>>because it is pretty.
>
>
> WTF? Where did this come from? Certainly not from this post or
> any of the others that Emily has written here over the years.
> Years.
Wow. You're certainly very touchy about topic. Take a chill
pill. I've seen lots of posts from Emily stating that
she wants to become a breeder and produce a dual
champion Labrador. You can't do that with a non
standard lab. She's seems terribly ill-informed?
Are you a breeder? Is that why you are so sensitive?
[jake]
|
|
|
| sighthounds etc. |
On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 14:40:52 GMT, jake huffman <jakehuff@bigpond.com>
wrote:
>
>
>sighthounds etc. wrote:
>> On 9 Aug 2003 04:36:56 GMT, Rocky <2pups@rocky-dog.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>jake huffman said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Many breeds
>>>>are going to crap because of irresponsible owners
>>>>like Emily who think they should breed their dog
>>>>because it is pretty.
>>>
>>>WTF? Where did this come from? Certainly not from this post or
>>>any of the others that Emily has written here over the years.
>>>Years.
>>
>>
>> It's just another example of why it's wise when subbing onto a
>> newsgroup to read, get the feel of the ng, and get to know the
>> regulars a little, before jumping in with one's opinons.
>
>Well,
>
>I've been popping in occasionally for a few
>months, and it seems that Emily is dead set on
>breeding, and now she's got a non standard Lab.
>She wants to become a breeder and she has a whole
>page of imaginary breedings at her website, which
>is kind of disturbing to me. I don't think Emily
>should be breeding dogs. What's the big deal
>about that?
According to her web site, she wants to train dogs as a career and
shows in obedience. I saw something about agility too, didn't see
anything about her wanting to become a breeder. Even if she did, I
don't see that as an evil thing, so long as she is a responsible
breeder.
Popping in on a ng occasionally is not going to tell you much about
either the ng or its regulars. Of course, you have every right to do
that if you choose, but don't be surprised if people jump all over you
when you're wrong, such as now.
>I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
>beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
>you'd be singing a different tune?
I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered as assistant
to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter for a while, and I know a
bit about overpopulation and unwanted animals. This however has
nothing at all to do with responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem.
Mustang Sally
|
|
|
| Melinda Shore |
In article <186299ab78040747fdda1a010c1dc714@free.teranews.com>,
jake huffman <jakehuff@bigpond.com> wrote:
>I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
>beautiful labrador puppies?
My goodness. To quote somebody, "It's just another example
of why it's wise when subbing onto a newsgroup to read, get
the feel of the ng, and get to know the regulars a little,
before jumping in with one's opinons." I expect Sally is a
*little* familiar with issues around pet overpopulation and
irresponsible breeding.
Those of us who don't breed are dependent on the efforts of
breeders who go about it correctly, and people who *are*
good breeders deserve our respect. The problem isn't
breeding in and of itself.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - shore@panix.com
If you don't understand how things are connected, the cause of
problems is solutions -- Amory Lovins
|
|
|
| jake huffman |
Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article <186299ab78040747fdda1a010c1dc714@free.teranews.com>,
> jake huffman <jakehuff@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
>>beautiful labrador puppies?
>
>
> My goodness. To quote somebody, "It's just another example
> of why it's wise when subbing onto a newsgroup to read, get
> the feel of the ng, and get to know the regulars a little,
> before jumping in with one's opinons." I expect Sally is a
> *little* familiar with issues around pet overpopulation and
> irresponsible breeding.
>
> Those of us who don't breed are dependent on the efforts of
> breeders who go about it correctly, and people who *are*
> good breeders deserve our respect. The problem isn't
> breeding in and of itself.
Are you the one with the big pack of malemutes (sp?).
I'll bet you have them all spayed and neutered. That's
all I'm asking here. If an experienced person with a
lot of dogs gets her dogs fixed (assumning yours are),
there's no reason why Emily shouldn't as well. I
thought this was a pro spay group? Do you want Emily
popping out non standard labs???
Sheesh!
[jake]
|
|
|
| sighthounds etc. |
On 9 Aug 2003 11:19:11 -0400, shore@panix.com (Melinda Shore) wrote:
>Those of us who don't breed are dependent on the efforts of
>breeders who go about it correctly, and people who *are*
>good breeders deserve our respect. The problem isn't
>breeding in and of itself.
I travelled to Macon, Georgia this week (in 3 days; yuck) with a
friend who was picking up her Saluki puppy. Granted, Salukis are not
a common breed, and you see very few in rescue and about 0 in
shelters, but the point is that this breeder is an extremely
responsible breeder. And there is something very special about the
joy of a planned, healthy litter of beautiful pups with homes waiting
for them (two chocolates and a chocolate parti!). Responsible
breeders don't contribute to the problem of pet overpopulation.
How are those sleddog pups coming along?
Mustang Sally
|
|
|
| Melinda Shore |
In article <9de92cbc321871b0571647deba4df75b@free.teranews.com>,
jake huffman <jakehuff@bigpond.com> wrote:
>Are you the one with the big pack of malemutes (sp?).
No.
>I'll bet you have them all spayed and neutered.
No, actually - one of my bitches is intact.
>I thought this was a pro spay group?
I'd characterize it as a pro-dog group. I wouldn't agree
that no dog should ever be bred, and if you accept that as a
starting point it then follows that it's reasonable to talk
about which dogs should be bred under what circumstances and
by whom. I'm not familiar with Labs, but in my own breed,
which is a working dog (Siberian Huskies), the dogs with the
best working qualities are generally regarded as "non-
standard" by people who specialize in conformation showing,
and those people dominate the AKC-affiliated breed club. A
Siberian that weighs 80 lbs is non-standard and so is one
with big ears. An 80 lb. Sibe can't run great distances at
moderate speed with a moderate load, but one with big ears
certainly can. I think the phrase "non-standard" needs to
be qualified to describe exactly what you mean by it.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - shore@panix.com
If you don't understand how things are connected, the cause of
problems is solutions -- Amory Lovins
|
|
|
| shelly |
On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 14:45:41 GMT, jake huffman <jakehuff@bigpond.com>
wrote:
>Wow. You're certainly very touchy about topic. Take a chill
>pill. I've seen lots of posts from Emily stating that
>she wants to become a breeder and produce a dual
>champion Labrador.
no. you've seen lots of posts from Emily stating that she intends to
work on getting conformation and performance titles on the Lab puppy she
will be getting in a couple of weeks.
i think she *has* stated that someday, when she has both the knowledge
and the right dog, she would like to pursue responsible breeding
(breeding for health, temperament, and conformance). responsible
breeders are the guardians of their breeds and should be commended for
their dedication, not chastised for something they have not done.
*responsible* breeders are not the ones producing the pups your wife has
to kill.
>You can't do that with a non standard lab.
fox red labs are actually yellow, which is a standard, acceptable color.
>She's seems terribly ill-informed?
no, that would be *you*.
>Are you a breeder? Is that why you are so sensitive?
Matt is not a breeder. if you'd been lurking for as long as you say you
have, you would know that.
--
shelly (foul wench) and elliott & harriet
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
Everything you can imagine is real.
-- Pablo Picasso
|
|
|
| shelly |
On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 15:30:51 GMT, jake huffman <jakehuff@bigpond.com>
wrote:
>Are you the one with the big pack of malemutes (sp?).
Melinda has Siberian Huskies.
>If an experienced person with a
>lot of dogs gets her dogs fixed (assumning yours are),
>there's no reason why Emily shouldn't as well.
first of all, it's impossible to compete in AKC conformation with a
speutered dog, so Emily's pup won't be able to be neutered until after
she finishes showing him.
secondly, it *is* possible to be a responsible owner without speutering
your pets. while there are some health benefits from speutering, it is
usually done as A) a means of population control and B) for the
convenience of the owner. i've had male dogs all my life and elliott is
the first one that's been neutered--at 5yo. not speutering does *not*
make one either a breeder or an irresponsible owner.
>I thought this was a pro spay group?
no, this is a dog behavior discussion group. most of the people here
(besides a couple of trolls) advocate responsible dog ownership and
responsible breeding.
--
shelly (foul wench) and elliott & harriet
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
Guns don't kill people, physics kills people.
-- Dick Solomon, "Third Rock from the Sun"
|
|
|
| sighthounds etc. |
On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 15:30:51 GMT, jake huffman <jakehuff@bigpond.com>
wrote:
>
>
>Melinda Shore wrote:
>
>> In article <186299ab78040747fdda1a010c1dc714@free.teranews.com>,
>> jake huffman <jakehuff@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
>>>beautiful labrador puppies?
>>
>>
>> My goodness. To quote somebody, "It's just another example
>> of why it's wise when subbing onto a newsgroup to read, get
>> the feel of the ng, and get to know the regulars a little,
>> before jumping in with one's opinons." I expect Sally is a
>> *little* familiar with issues around pet overpopulation and
>> irresponsible breeding.
>>
>> Those of us who don't breed are dependent on the efforts of
>> breeders who go about it correctly, and people who *are*
>> good breeders deserve our respect. The problem isn't
>> breeding in and of itself.
>
>Are you the one with the big pack of malemutes (sp?).
>I'll bet you have them all spayed and neutered. That's
>all I'm asking here. If an experienced person with a
>lot of dogs gets her dogs fixed (assumning yours are),
>there's no reason why Emily shouldn't as well. I
>thought this was a pro spay group? Do you want Emily
>popping out non standard labs???
>Sheesh!
This is a dog behavior newsgroup, concerned with issues surrounding
dog training, dog behavior, etc. There are people on this newsgroup
who show their dogs in conformation, and dogs being shown in
conformation must be intact (until they reach the age where they can
be shown in veterans). There are also responsible breeders on this
newsgroup. If you think that Melinda has a big pack of MalAmutes, and
that I have no knowledge of pet overpopulation issues, and that
Emily's goal in life is to breed dogs that don't meet standards, you
might want to spend a bit of time getting to know people here.
Mustang Sally
|
|
|
| Melinda Shore |
In article <mu4ajvopbdqk7n1060ap9stmh4e8t269kn@4ax.com>,
sighthounds etc. <greypighound@ncweb.com> wrote:
>How are those sleddog pups coming along?
Quite well the last I heard. I've decided to ask Rhonda to
move me to the bottom of the list, though. I don't feel like
I'm spending enough time with the dogs I've got. Also, I've
been pretty sick for the past week or so and it's meant that
the dogs haven't been getting enough exercise, and I think
you're probably the one person here who can truly appreciate
what a houseful of overly-energetic Siberian Huskies is
like.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - shore@panix.com
If you don't understand how things are connected, the cause of
problems is solutions -- Amory Lovins
|
|
|
| dianne marie schoenberg |
jake huffman <jakehuff@bigpond.com> wrote:
>I've seen lots of posts from Emily stating that
>she wants to become a breeder and produce a dual
>champion Labrador.
Find one. Just one. You can start here:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?hl=en
The closest I can come to your claim is at
http://groups.google.com/groups?sel...news.cl.msu.edu
"I'm *hoping* for a Can/Am/UKC Ch. UD and would
*love* to add a hunting title but have never hunted
so...and would love to have some UKC obedience but
we'll see about that."
The mistake I think you're making is that showing
!= breeding. I've shown a number of dogs in all
sorts of venues (conformation, herding, obedience
& agility) both for myself and for others--and
not a one of them was ever bred.
Furthermore, Emily has very consistently and
articulately tried to talk people out of doing
ill-planned breedings. She's on YOUR side. That's
why so many of us are absolutely flabbergasted
that you would attack her.
Dianne
|
|
|
| sighthounds etc. |
On 9 Aug 2003 11:54:12 -0400, shore@panix.com (Melinda Shore) wrote:
>In article <mu4ajvopbdqk7n1060ap9stmh4e8t269kn@4ax.com>,
>sighthounds etc. <greypighound@ncweb.com> wrote:
>>How are those sleddog pups coming along?
>
>Quite well the last I heard. I've decided to ask Rhonda to
>move me to the bottom of the list, though. I don't feel like
>I'm spending enough time with the dogs I've got. Also, I've
>been pretty sick for the past week or so and it's meant that
>the dogs haven't been getting enough exercise, and I think
>you're probably the one person here who can truly appreciate
>what a houseful of overly-energetic Siberian Huskies is
>like.
'Tis a scary thing, especially when one is too sick to do anything
about it. Hope you're well again, or at least on the road to
recovery. Boomer and Nakita are two of the most mellow Siberians I've
ever known (fingers and paws crossed, please; someone local, with a
fenced yard and another Sibe, is interested in Nakita). That just
leaves my 10 year-olds, who still have quite a lot of energy.
Something's up with Tasha, though. Twice in the last week, she has
crawled into DH's or my lap, trembling and apparently very anxious for
no apparent reason. Normally an obsessive licker, she didn't lick us
while in this state. And she had another grand mal seizure Thursday
night (she had one almost exactly two years ago). Weird stuff. It's
even less fun to watch one's dogs age than it is to age oneself.
Mustang Sally
|
|
|
| Rocky |
jake huffman said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> Wow. You're certainly very touchy about topic. Take a chill
> pill.
Heh. You're the one who went off the deep end first with your
unfounded accusations. Are you trolling?
> I've seen lots of posts from Emily stating that
> she wants to become a breeder and produce a dual
> champion Labrador. You can't do that with a non
> standard lab. She's seems terribly ill-informed?
Was that last sentence a question or a statement? If it's a
statement, I'd like to see you back it up. It seems to me that,
over the years, Emily has done a great deal of research.
Anyway, even if Emily does eventually want to produce a dual
champion Labrador (kudos!), what makes you think that she wants
to use her new dog-to-be?
Also, in what way is the dog "non standard"? The only attribute
she mentioned was its colour -- Fox Red -- a perfectly fine and
allowable colour for a yellow Labrador Retriever.
> Are you a breeder? Is that why you are so sensitive?
More jumping to wild conclusions. Didn't you say that you'd
been by this group before?
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
|
|
|
| jake huffman |
shelly wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 15:30:51 GMT, jake huffman <jakehuff@bigpond.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Are you the one with the big pack of malemutes (sp?).
>
>
> Melinda has Siberian Huskies.
thank you for the correction.
>>If an experienced person with a
>>lot of dogs gets her dogs fixed (assumning yours are),
>>there's no reason why Emily shouldn't as well.
>
>
> first of all, it's impossible to compete in AKC conformation with a
> speutered dog, so Emily's pup won't be able to be neutered until after
> she finishes showing him.
>
> secondly, it *is* possible to be a responsible owner without speutering
> your pets.
Wow. I'm sorry, but you need to get with the times. This *is* 2003 you know.
> while there are some health benefits from speutering,
A LOT of them.
> it is
> usually done as A) a means of population control and B) for the
> convenience of the owner. i've had male dogs all my life and elliott is
> the first one that's been neutered--at 5yo.
And I'll bet you're kicking yourself that you didn't do it sooner, or
that it wasn't done by the breeder, so you wouldn't have to worry about
it? If you leave it in the hands of the clueless owners, they won't get
it done. It really should be done by the breeders. That way, we could
really solve the overpopulation problem.
I'm sorry, but that's the way I feel.
[jake]
|
|
|
| jake huffman |
Melinda Shore wrote:
> In article <9de92cbc321871b0571647deba4df75b@free.teranews.com>,
> jake huffman <jakehuff@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>Are you the one with the big pack of malemutes (sp?).
>
>
> No.
>
>
>>I'll bet you have them all spayed and neutered.
>
>
> No, actually - one of my bitches is intact.
>
>
>>I thought this was a pro spay group?
>
>
> I'd characterize it as a pro-dog group. I wouldn't agree
> that no dog should ever be bred, and if you accept that as a
> starting point it then follows that it's reasonable to talk
> about which dogs should be bred under what circumstances and
> by whom. I'm not familiar with Labs, but in my own breed,
> which is a working dog (Siberian Huskies), the dogs with the
> best working qualities are generally regarded as "non-
> standard" by people who specialize in conformation showing,
> and those people dominate the AKC-affiliated breed club. A
> Siberian that weighs 80 lbs is non-standard and so is one
> with big ears. An 80 lb. Sibe can't run great distances at
> moderate speed with a moderate load, but one with big ears
> certainly can. I think the phrase "non-standard" needs to
> be qualified to describe exactly what you mean by it.
thank you Melinda,
Unlike some people around here, you are not so
quick to jump on new posters. I guess I can see
what you mean, but Emily's website disturbs me
because it seems she is obsessed with dog breeding.
[jake]
|
|
|
| Melinda Shore |
In article <bbe44732a09a8c114e86ba121494fef3@free.teranews.com>,
jake huffman <jakehuff@bigpond.com> wrote:
>I guess I can see
>what you mean, but Emily's website disturbs me
>because it seems she is obsessed with dog breeding.
I would hope that somebody who's planning on a dog career is
absorbed by it. "Obsessive" and "planning to pump out large
volumes of puppies" aren't the same thing.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - shore@panix.com
If you don't understand how things are connected, the cause of
problems is solutions -- Amory Lovins
|
|
|
| jake huffman |
Rocky wrote:
<snip nonsense>
> Also, in what way is the dog "non standard"? The only attribute
> she mentioned was its colour -- Fox Red -- a perfectly fine and
> allowable colour for a yellow Labrador Retriever.
Oh. I thought she meant red like a red fox. Sorry.
>>Are you a breeder? Is that why you are so sensitive?
>
>
> More jumping to wild conclusions. Didn't you say that you'd
> been by this group before?
Doesn't mean I know everybody's life history.
sheez...
[jake]
|
|
|
| Rocky |
jake huffman said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
><snip nonsense>
You're coming off really well here, Jake.
> Oh. I thought she meant red like a red fox. Sorry.
OK, but you should be apologising to Emily, not me.
> >>Are you a breeder? Is that why you are so sensitive?
> > More jumping to wild conclusions. Didn't you say that
> > you'd been by this group before?
> Doesn't mean I know everybody's life history.
> sheez...
So, it's OK for you to make unfounded accusations? Sheez
indeed.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
|
|
|
| The Puppy Wizard |
HOWEDY racetrack silly,
"sighthounds etc." <greypighound@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:8j2ajvsu7br3iraeg3q30ka5t9mr3tc0ac@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 14:40:52 GMT, jake huffman <jakehuff@bigpond.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >sighthounds etc. wrote:
> >> On 9 Aug 2003 04:36:56 GMT, Rocky <2pups@rocky-dog.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>jake huffman said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Many breeds
> >>>>are going to crap because of irresponsible owners
> >>>>like Emily who think they should breed their dog
> >>>>because it is pretty.
> >>>
> >>>WTF? Where did this come from? Certainly not
> >>>from this post or any of the others that Emily has
> >>> written here over the years.
You been readin ~emily's ABUSE of dogs, for years.
> >>>Years.
INDEEDY. You do recall her EXXXPLAININ HANGIN
a la wm koehler, don't you racetrack silly? You're a
koehler fan, ain't you?
> >> It's just another example of why it's wise when
> > > subbing onto a newsgroup to read,
Every thing is in the archives. Ain't it.
> > >get the feel of the ng,
These news groups FEEL like a MENTAL INSTITUTION.
> > > and get to know the regulars a little,
You've SEEN the CASE HISTORIES, racetrack silly.
> > >before jumping in with one's opinons.
Opinion got NUTHIN to do with FACTS as in the archives.
> >Well, I've been popping in occasionally for a few
> >months, and it seems that Emily is dead set on
> >breeding, and now she's got a non standard Lab.
The Puppy Wizard isn't interested in her breeding aspirations.
HE'S MOORE interested in HOWE COME she shouldn't handle
or train dogs or kids, that's all. She's a ABUSER.
> >She wants to become a breeder and she has a whole
> >page of imaginary breedings at her website, which
> >is kind of disturbing to me.
She's an abuser and a mental case, THAT'S what
bothers The Puppy Wizard. SHE HURTS DOGS.
> > I don't think Emily should be breeding dogs.
We NEED LAWS preventing people from doin
w | | | |
