| Plucking Gray - CLICK HERE for the Pet Manual Forum Home Page |
| Carol |
Hello,
Well Sunday morning I woke up to my CAG 's cage filled with feathers. She's
9 years old and I have had her since she was weaned. Absolutely nothing
different occured between Sat night and Sun morning (that I am aware of)
that would have caused this. Her neck is practically bare and her chest and
legs are just fuzz. Of course Mon morning I was on the phone with my avian
vet (yes he specializes in birds) and made an appointment. He did in depth
blood work and everything came back perfectly normal. He put her on valium
dissolved in water and Red Palm Oil. I just started the valium today as he
said he would prefer that I start it when I can spend the day with her just
to see if she has any reaction to it... hyper or too subdued. She seems to
like the Red Palm Oil. I put it on some Nutri berries and she eats them
just fine. We're hoping that since I got her to the vet right away and got
her started on something we can get it under control.
I guess my question is has anybody else heard of the Red Palm Oil? Have you
heard of this helping pluckers. I have been told that they seem to have
good luck with it especially with CAGs.
Carol
|
|
|
| Vox |
On 11-Oct-2003, "Carol" <birdkatie@suscom.net> wrote:
> I guess my question is has anybody else heard of the Red Palm Oil? Have
> you
> heard of this helping pluckers. I have been told that they seem to have
> good luck with it especially with CAGs.
> Carol
The palm oil will do her good. It is loaded with vit A and is a
mono-unsaturated oil.
Try giving her some vit C as well. I know they are supposed to synthesise
their
own and they do, but not enough in my experience.
The valium I don't like, I hate the thought of giving sedatives to birds.
Vox.
|
|
|
| oldmolly |
"Vox" <vox@dontryafrica.com> wrote in message
news:bQWdnYu5Xr1ViRWiU-KYvg@is.co.za...
>
> On 11-Oct-2003, "Carol" <birdkatie@suscom.net> wrote:
>
> > I guess my question is has anybody else heard of the Red Palm Oil? Have
> > you
> > heard of this helping pluckers. I have been told that they seem to have
> > good luck with it especially with CAGs.
> > Carol
>
> The palm oil will do her good. It is loaded with vit A and is a
> mono-unsaturated oil.
> Try giving her some vit C as well. I know they are supposed to synthesise
> their
> own
Not just 'supposed', they actually *do*.
>and they do, but not enough in my experience.
Please explain this. Have you found a way to measure the amount in their
body? What is the correct amount for a bird of this size, how much not
enough do they make and how did you find this out.
|
|
|
| Vox |
On 11-Oct-2003, "oldmolly" <oldmolly1@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > Try giving her some vit C as well. I know they are supposed to
> > synthesise
> > their
> > own
> Not just 'supposed', they actually *do*.
>
> >and they do, but not enough in my experience.
>
> Please explain this. Have you found a way to measure the amount in their
> body? What is the correct amount for a bird of this size, how much not
> enough do they make and how did you find this out.
OM,
why don't you READ messages before you stick your foot in your mouth?
I said they DO synthesise Vit C in the very next line which you so kindly
quoted for me.
It is well documented that birds tested, after undergoing stress, have no
Vit C in their system. I believe the example quoted is of birds which had
just been shipped. If it were anyone else but you, I would look up the
reference, I may be wrong but I think it is documented in Harrison Harrison
&Ritchie as well. You can look it up for yourself.
Vox.
|
|
|
| Mikie |
in article bQWdnYu5Xr1ViRWiU-KYvg@is.co.za, Vox wrote on 10/11/03 9:34 AM:
>
> On 11-Oct-2003, "Carol" wrote:
>
>> I guess my question is has anybody else heard of the Red Palm Oil? Have
>> you
>> heard of this helping pluckers. I have been told that they seem to have
>> good luck with it especially with CAGs.
>> Carol
>
> The palm oil will do her good. It is loaded with vit A and is a
> mono-unsaturated oil.
> Try giving her some vit C as well. I know they are supposed to synthesise
> their
> own and they do, but not enough in my experience.
> The valium I don't like, I hate the thought of giving sedatives to birds.
> Vox.
I have to agree with Vox about the valium, I would be hesitant to put a bird
on it at the first onset of plucking after 9 years of not.
Palm oil comes from the fruit of the African Oil Palm. The fruit is a large
part of the Greys diet in the wild. I haven't heard of Palm oil helping a
plucker, I'm sure there is the possibility, if the plucking is based on a
dietary issue that the oil may correct. I ordered some awhile back and our
Grey didn't seem the least bit interested in the orange-red oily substance
drizzled on her food :-)
You mentioned Nutriberries - just a thought, I remember reading about a
person who gave Nutriberries almost as the basis in her Grey's diet, it
seemed that the sugar content contributed to a yeast infection, which
resulted in the bird plucking the area of it's body that you described with
your grey. I'm not saying you feed your grey Nutriberries as a main
component of the diet, but I just happened to think of it.
Take care Carol and best of luck with your baby... I know how it feels as I
have a little nervous CAG who likes to sport bare wings as of lately.
~mikie
|
|
|
| Mikie |
in article vog3594g4bnb6c@corp.supernews.com, Carol at wrote on 10/11/03
8:59 AM:
> Hello,
> Well Sunday morning I woke up to my CAG 's cage filled with feathers. She's
> 9 years old and I have had her since she was weaned. Absolutely nothing
> different occured between Sat night and Sun morning (that I am aware of)
> that would have caused this. Her neck is practically bare and her chest and
> legs are just fuzz. Of course Mon morning I was on the phone with my avian
> vet (yes he specializes in birds) and made an appointment. He did in depth
> blood work and everything came back perfectly normal. He put her on valium
> dissolved in water and Red Palm Oil. I just started the valium today as he
> said he would prefer that I start it when I can spend the day with her just
> to see if she has any reaction to it... hyper or too subdued. She seems to
> like the Red Palm Oil. I put it on some Nutri berries and she eats them
> just fine. We're hoping that since I got her to the vet right away and got
> her started on something we can get it under control.
> I guess my question is has anybody else heard of the Red Palm Oil? Have you
> heard of this helping pluckers. I have been told that they seem to have
> good luck with it especially with CAGs.
> Carol
Hi again Carol :-)
I don't know why I didn't think about this earlier, but recently I have been
privy to a number of discussions in other groups regarding greys developing
allergies between the ages of 8-10 years. The two biggest food items that
were determined to be the culprit were yams and sunflower seeds.
The allergies resulted in plucking... Anyway, it is just a thought.
~Mikie
|
|
|
| Digital_Cowboy |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Mikie,
From talking with my new Avian Vet I think that the "large amount" of
protien in Nutriberries is what helped to contribute to my 'Tiels demise.
Herman
"Mikie" <mikie@humblewildlife.com> wrote in message
news:BBADE1B3.10C47%mikie@humblewildlife.com...
| in article bQWdnYu5Xr1ViRWiU-KYvg@is.co.za, Vox wrote on 10/11/03 9:34 AM:
|
| >
| > On 11-Oct-2003, "Carol" wrote:
| >
| >> I guess my question is has anybody else heard of the Red Palm Oil? Have
| >> you
| >> heard of this helping pluckers. I have been told that they seem to have
| >> good luck with it especially with CAGs.
| >> Carol
| >
| > The palm oil will do her good. It is loaded with vit A and is a
| > mono-unsaturated oil.
| > Try giving her some vit C as well. I know they are supposed to synthesise
| > their
| > own and they do, but not enough in my experience.
| > The valium I don't like, I hate the thought of giving sedatives to birds.
| > Vox.
|
| I have to agree with Vox about the valium, I would be hesitant to put a bird
| on it at the first onset of plucking after 9 years of not.
|
| Palm oil comes from the fruit of the African Oil Palm. The fruit is a large
| part of the Greys diet in the wild. I haven't heard of Palm oil helping a
| plucker, I'm sure there is the possibility, if the plucking is based on a
| dietary issue that the oil may correct. I ordered some awhile back and our
| Grey didn't seem the least bit interested in the orange-red oily substance
| drizzled on her food :-)
|
| You mentioned Nutriberries - just a thought, I remember reading about a
| person who gave Nutriberries almost as the basis in her Grey's diet, it
| seemed that the sugar content contributed to a yeast infection, which
| resulted in the bird plucking the area of it's body that you described with
| your grey. I'm not saying you feed your grey Nutriberries as a main
| component of the diet, but I just happened to think of it.
|
| Take care Carol and best of luck with your baby... I know how it feels as I
| have a little nervous CAG who likes to sport bare wings as of lately.
|
| ~mikie
|
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|
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| Steve |
"Vox" <vox@dontryafrica.com> wrote in message
news:beucnSAFTOS06xWiU-KYvw@is.co.za...
>
> On 11-Oct-2003, "oldmolly" <oldmolly1@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > >and they do, but not enough in my experience.
> >
> It is well documented that birds tested, after undergoing stress, have no
> Vit C in their system.
So your "experience" is other peoples documentation of stressed birds?
Does this mean that you think my unstressed birds living their normal daily
lives don't produce enough vit C?
--
* Steve *
|
|
|
| Vox |
On 12-Oct-2003, "Steve" <mynameis_mj@notasecret.com> wrote:
> So your "experience" is other peoples documentation of stressed birds?
>
> Does this mean that you think my unstressed birds living their normal
> daily
> lives don't produce enough vit C?
Piss off, asshole. I have had more years experience in birds than you have
whiskers. Who in hell was discussing your ' unstressed birds' in the first
place? We were discussing an African Grey which has started plucking
after 9 years. Apparently the Vet's opinion is that it is so stressed,
he/she
has the bird on Valium. Your birds living their normal daily lives DONT
produce enough Vit C to cope with stress. Do yourself a favour and read
the label on any anti stress medication---- they all contain Vit C.
If you are spoiling for a fight------ sign up and go to Iraq.
That is, unless you were trolling for a date with OM or Mammabird?
Vox.
|
|
|
| oldmolly |
"Vox" <vox@dontryafrica.com> wrote in message
news:beucnSAFTOS06xWiU-KYvw@is.co.za...
>
> On 11-Oct-2003, "oldmolly" <oldmolly1@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > > Try giving her some vit C as well. I know they are supposed to
> > > synthesise
> > > their
> > > own
> > Not just 'supposed', they actually *do*.
> >
> > >and they do, but not enough in my experience.
> >
> > Please explain this. Have you found a way to measure the amount in
their
> > body? What is the correct amount for a bird of this size, how much not
> > enough do they make and how did you find this out.
>
> OM,
> why don't you READ messages before you stick your foot in your mouth?
> I said they DO synthesise Vit C in the very next line which you so kindly
> quoted for me.
> It is well documented that birds tested, after undergoing stress, have no
> Vit C in their system. I believe the example quoted is of birds which had
> just been shipped. If it were anyone else but you, I would look up the
> reference, I may be wrong but I think it is documented in Harrison
Harrison
> &Ritchie as well. You can look it up for yourself.
But you said with reference to how much vitamin C they produce "but not
enough in my experience"
I want to know what *your* experience is. How you measured the amount and
what was the 'normal' amount. I am referring to normal pet birds without any
undue stress placed upon them like shipping etc. I want to know what *your*
experience is with regards to the above.
|
|
|
| Jenny |
Oh Molly, you're a Riot Dear!
Love you!!!!!!
Jenny
"oldmolly" <oldmolly1@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:x0bib.813$mM1.533@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
>
> "Vox" <vox@dontryafrica.com> wrote in message
> news:uY2dnbBYu-VGjxSiU-KYjA@is.co.za...
> >
> > On 12-Oct-2003, "Steve" <mynameis_mj@notasecret.com> wrote:
> >
> > > So your "experience" is other peoples documentation of stressed birds?
> > >
> > > Does this mean that you think my unstressed birds living their normal
> > > daily
> > > lives don't produce enough vit C?
> >
> > Piss off, asshole. I have had more years experience in birds than you
have
> > whiskers.
>
> Wahahahaha!!! ROFPMSL.
> Oh dearie me that made my day it really did. Someone else asked a totally
> valid question about your reference to "my experience" and you respond
with
> swearing and abuse. Oh too funny. I take it from your reaction little man,
> that you actually have little or no real experience???
>
>
>
> >Who in hell was discussing your ' unstressed birds' in the first
> > place?
> This is usenet little man, anyone may post as they see fit in response to
a
> topic.
>
> > We were discussing an African Grey which has started plucking
> > after 9 years. Apparently the Vet's opinion is that it is so stressed,
> > he/she
> > has the bird on Valium.
> And you offered an opinion based on your supposed 'experience' and then
got
> abusive and refused to answer when Steve and I asked about your experience
> in this field. Add to that that the poster's avian vet has actually seen
and
> examined the bird and you have nothing more to go on than a usenet post
and
> it seems, little man, that you are talking out of a hole in your bum chum.
>
> >our birds living their normal daily lives DONT
> > produce enough Vit C to cope with stress.
> How do you know this, given that stress is perfectly normal and natural
in
> wild birds. They suffer stress daily, it is all part of being able to stay
> alive in the face of drought, hunger and predation. Stress is normal
little
> man.
>
> >Do yourself a favour and read
> > the label on any anti stress medication---- they all contain Vit C.
> > If you are spoiling for a fight------ sign up and go to Iraq.
> > That is, unless you were trolling for a date with OM or Mammabird?
> Can't speak for Mama, but I would rather have a date with Steve, than a
> dwarfish south african boor (deliberately misspelled) any day.
>
>
|
|
|
| Vox |
On 12-Oct-2003, "oldmolly" <oldmolly1@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> But you said with reference to how much vitamin C they produce "but not
> enough in my experience"
> I want to know what *your* experience is. How you measured the amount and
> what was the 'normal' amount. I am referring to normal pet birds without
> any
> undue stress placed upon them like shipping etc. I want to know what
> *your*
> experience is with regards to the above.
My experience is that I have had losses due to stress, particularly when
catching up wild-caughts prior to shipping them. Those losses decreased
dramatically when I started dosing with a Vit C supplement BEFORE handling
them. If you expected me to say that I do my own blood tests and have my
own laboratory for analysis, I would have to dissapoint you. Sorry old bag,
better luck next time. You are reading things which were not said now.
The discussion in question was specifically about a Grey which the
Vet had diagnosed as sufficiently stressed to warrant prescribing a sedative
as strong as Valium. If a Vet has diagnosed stress, who am I to argue
that the bird was not stressed, particularly when I had not seen it myself?
For that matter, who are you to have decided so?
If you are trying to say that Vit C for stress, is the wrong treatment, or
that it is in any way possible to harm a bird by supplementing with Vit C
then come out with it and say so, otherwise ' hob de gob '.
Vox.
|
|
|
| Vox |
On 12-Oct-2003, "oldmolly" <oldmolly1@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > Piss off, asshole. I have had more years experience in birds than you
> > have
> > whiskers.
>
> Wahahahaha!!! ROFPMSL.
> Oh dearie me that made my day it really did. Someone else asked a totally
> valid question about your reference to "my experience" and you respond
> with
> swearing and abuse.
Small things do amuse small minds. If piss off asshole is swearing and
abuse,
then I have seen you respond on occasions with gross profanity.
The rest of your post has already been answered, other than the point about
a
' valid' question. This rectal excuse had the effrontery to suggest that I
was discussing
his birds when the entire thread had been about one African Grey owned by
someone else. IMO he was simply trying to score brownie points with certain
middle aged females on the list who shall remain nameless for now
to preserve peace and harmony.
Vox.
|
|
|
| oldmolly |
"Vox" <vox@dontryafrica.com> wrote in message
news:e_-dnR5rSI5cBBSiU-KYiA@is.co.za...
>
> On 12-Oct-2003, "oldmolly" <oldmolly1@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > > Piss off, asshole. I have had more years experience in birds than you
> > > have
> > > whiskers.
> >
> > Wahahahaha!!! ROFPMSL.
> > Oh dearie me that made my day it really did. Someone else asked a
totally
> > valid question about your reference to "my experience" and you respond
> > with
> > swearing and abuse.
>
> Small things do amuse small minds. If piss off asshole is swearing and
> abuse,
> then I have seen you respond on occasions with gross profanity.
Please provide me with a link to this evidence as I am not in the habit of
using foul language.
|
|
|
| oldmolly |
"Vox" <vox@dontryafrica.com> wrote in message
news:e_-dnR9rSI4jBBSiU-KYiA@is.co.za...
>
> On 12-Oct-2003, "oldmolly" <oldmolly1@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > But you said with reference to how much vitamin C they produce "but not
> > enough in my experience"
> > I want to know what *your* experience is. How you measured the amount
and
> > what was the 'normal' amount. I am referring to normal pet birds without
> > any
> > undue stress placed upon them like shipping etc. I want to know what
> > *your*
> > experience is with regards to the above.
>
> My experience is that I have had losses due to stress, particularly when
> catching up wild-caughts prior to shipping them. Those losses decreased
> dramatically when I started dosing with a Vit C supplement BEFORE handling
> them. If you expected me to say that I do my own blood tests and have my
> own laboratory for analysis, I would have to dissapoint you. Sorry old
bag,
> better luck next time. You are reading things which were not said now.
> The discussion in question was specifically about a Grey which the
> Vet had diagnosed as sufficiently stressed to warrant prescribing a
sedative
> as strong as Valium. If a Vet has diagnosed stress, who am I to argue
> that the bird was not stressed, particularly when I had not seen it
myself?
> For that matter, who are you to have decided so?
> If you are trying to say that Vit C for stress, is the wrong treatment, or
> that it is in any way possible to harm a bird by supplementing with Vit C
> then come out with it and say so, otherwise ' hob de gob '.
> Vox.
I'm saying nothing. You are the one doing all the talking. I merely asked
you a question with regard to your experience in the field of vitamin C
deficiency, and the normal levels of vitamin C in parrots.
|
|
|
| Vox |
On 11-Oct-2003, "Carol" <birdkatie@suscom.net> wrote:
> I guess my question is has anybody else heard of the Red Palm Oil? Have
> you
> heard of this helping pluckers. I have been told that they seem to have
> good luck with it especially with CAGs.
> Carol
The palm oil will do her good. It is loaded with vit A and is a
mono-unsaturated oil.
Try giving her some vit C as well. I know they are supposed to synthesise
their
own and they do, but not enough in my experience.
The valium I don't like, I hate the thought of giving sedatives to birds.
Vox.
|
|
|
| oldmolly |
"Vox" <vox@dontryafrica.com> wrote in message
news:bQWdnYu5Xr1ViRWiU-KYvg@is.co.za...
>
> On 11-Oct-2003, "Carol" <birdkatie@suscom.net> wrote:
>
> > I guess my question is has anybody else heard of the Red Palm Oil? Have
> > you
> > heard of this helping pluckers. I have been told that they seem to have
> > good luck with it especially with CAGs.
> > Carol
>
> The palm oil will do her good. It is loaded with vit A and is a
> mono-unsaturated oil.
> Try giving her some vit C as well. I know they are supposed to synthesise
> their
> own
Not just 'supposed', they actually *do*.
>and they do, but not enough in my experience.
Please explain this. Have you found a way to measure the amount in their
body? What is the correct amount for a bird of this size, how much not
enough do they make and how did you find this out.
|
|
|
| Vox |
On 11-Oct-2003, "oldmolly" <oldmolly1@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > Try giving her some vit C as well. I know they are supposed to
> > synthesise
> > their
> > own
> Not just 'supposed', they actually *do*.
>
> >and they do, but not enough in my experience.
>
> Please explain this. Have you found a way to measure the amount in their
> body? What is the correct amount for a bird of this size, how much not
> enough do they make and how did you find this out.
OM,
why don't you READ messages before you stick your foot in your mouth?
I said they DO synthesise Vit C in the very next line which you so kindly
quoted for me.
It is well documented that birds tested, after undergoing stress, have no
Vit C in their system. I believe the example quoted is of birds which had
just been shipped. If it were anyone else but you, I would look up the
reference, I may be wrong but I think it is documented in Harrison Harrison
&Ritchie as well. You can look it up for yourself.
Vox.
|
|
|
| Mikie |
in article bQWdnYu5Xr1ViRWiU-KYvg@is.co.za, Vox wrote on 10/11/03 9:34 AM:
>
> On 11-Oct-2003, "Carol" wrote:
>
>> I guess my question is has anybody else heard of the Red Palm Oil? Have
>> you
>> heard of this helping pluckers. I have been told that they seem to have
>> good luck with it especially with CAGs.
>> Carol
>
> The palm oil will do her good. It is loaded with vit A and is a
> mono-unsaturated oil.
> Try giving her some vit C as well. I know they are supposed to synthesise
> their
> own and they do, but not enough in my experience.
> The valium I don't like, I hate the thought of giving sedatives to birds.
> Vox.
I have to agree with Vox about the valium, I would be hesitant to put a bird
on it at the first onset of plucking after 9 years of not.
Palm oil comes from the fruit of the African Oil Palm. The fruit is a large
part of the Greys diet in the wild. I haven't heard of Palm oil helping a
plucker, I'm sure there is the possibility, if the plucking is based on a
dietary issue that the oil may correct. I ordered some awhile back and our
Grey didn't seem the least bit interested in the orange-red oily substance
drizzled on her food :-)
You mentioned Nutriberries - just a thought, I remember reading about a
person who gave Nutriberries almost as the basis in her Grey's diet, it
seemed that the sugar content contributed to a yeast infection, which
resulted in the bird plucking the area of it's body that you described with
your grey. I'm not saying you feed your grey Nutriberries as a main
component of the diet, but I just happened to think of it.
Take care Carol and best of luck with your baby... I know how it feels as I
have a little nervous CAG who likes to sport bare wings as of lately.
~mikie
|
|
|
| Mikie |
in article vog3594g4bnb6c@corp.supernews.com, Carol at wrote on 10/11/03
8:59 AM:
> Hello,
> Well Sunday morning I woke up to my CAG 's cage filled with feathers. She's
> 9 years old and I have had her since she was weaned. Absolutely nothing
> different occured between Sat night and Sun morning (that I am aware of)
> that would have caused this. Her neck is practically bare and her chest and
> legs are just fuzz. Of course Mon morning I was on the phone with my avian
> vet (yes he specializes in birds) and made an appointment. He did in depth
> blood work and everything came back perfectly normal. He put her on valium
> dissolved in water and Red Palm Oil. I just started the valium today as he
> said he would prefer that I start it when I can spend the day with her just
> to see if she has any reaction to it... hyper or too subdued. She seems to
> like the Red Palm Oil. I put it on some Nutri berries and she eats them
> just fine. We're hoping that since I got her to the vet right away and got
> her started on something we can get it under control.
> I guess my question is has anybody else heard of the Red Palm Oil? Have you
> heard of this helping pluckers. I have been told that they seem to have
> good luck with it especially with CAGs.
> Carol
Hi again Carol :-)
I don't know why I didn't think about this earlier, but recently I have been
privy to a number of discussions in other groups regarding greys developing
allergies between the ages of 8-10 years. The two biggest food items that
were determined to be the culprit were yams and sunflower seeds.
The allergies resulted in plucking... Anyway, it is just a thought.
~Mikie
|
|
|
| Digital_Cowboy |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Mikie,
From talking with my new Avian Vet I think that the "large amount" of
protien in Nutriberries is what helped to contribute to my 'Tiels demise.
Herman
"Mikie" <mikie@humblewildlife.com> wrote in message
news:BBADE1B3.10C47%mikie@humblewildlife.com...
| in article bQWdnYu5Xr1ViRWiU-KYvg@is.co.za, Vox wrote on 10/11/03 9:34 AM:
|
| >
| > On 11-Oct-2003, "Carol" wrote:
| >
| >> I guess my question is has anybody else heard of the Red Palm Oil? Have
| >> you
| >> heard of this helping pluckers. I have been told that they seem to have
| >> good luck with it especially with CAGs.
| >> Carol
| >
| > The palm oil will do her good. It is loaded with vit A and is a
| > mono-unsaturated oil.
| > Try giving her some vit C as well. I know they are supposed to synthesise
| > their
| > own and they do, but not enough in my experience.
| > The valium I don't like, I hate the thought of giving sedatives to birds.
| > Vox.
|
| I have to agree with Vox about the valium, I would be hesitant to put a bird
| on it at the first onset of plucking after 9 years of not.
|
| Palm oil comes from the fruit of the African Oil Palm. The fruit is a large
| part of the Greys diet in the wild. I haven't heard of Palm oil helping a
| plucker, I'm sure there is the possibility, if the plucking is based on a
| dietary issue that the oil may correct. I ordered some awhile back and our
| Grey didn't seem the least bit interested in the orange-red oily substance
| drizzled on her food :-)
|
| You mentioned Nutriberries - just a thought, I remember reading about a
| person who gave Nutriberries almost as the basis in her Grey's diet, it
| seemed that the sugar content contributed to a yeast infection, which
| resulted in the bird plucking the area of it's body that you described with
| your grey. I'm not saying you feed your grey Nutriberries as a main
| component of the diet, but I just happened to think of it.
|
| Take care Carol and best of luck with your baby... I know how it feels as I
| have a little nervous CAG who likes to sport bare wings as of lately.
|
| ~mikie
|
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|
|
|
| Steve |
"Vox" <vox@dontryafrica.com> wrote in message
news:beucnSAFTOS06xWiU-KYvw@is.co.za...
>
> On 11-Oct-2003, "oldmolly" <oldmolly1@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > >and they do, but not enough in my experience.
> >
> It is well documented that birds tested, after undergoing stress, have no
> Vit C in their system.
So your "experience" is other peoples documentation of stressed birds?
Does this mean that you think my unstressed birds living their normal daily
lives don't produce enough vit C?
--
* Steve *
|
|
|
| Vox |
On 12-Oct-2003, "Steve" <mynameis_mj@notasecret.com> wrote:
> So your "experience" is other peoples documentation of stressed birds?
>
> Does this mean that you think my unstressed birds living their normal
> daily
> lives don't produce enough vit C?
Piss off, asshole. I have had more years experience in birds than you have
whiskers. Who in hell was discussing your ' unstressed birds' in the first
place? We were discussing an African Grey which has started plucking
after 9 years. Apparently the Vet's opinion is that it is so stressed,
he/she
has the bird on Valium. Your birds living their normal daily lives DONT
produce enough Vit C to cope with stress. Do yourself a favour and read
the label on any anti stress medication---- they all contain Vit C.
If you are spoiling for a fight------ sign up and go to Iraq.
That is, unless you were trolling for a date with OM or Mammabird?
Vox.
|
|
|
| oldmolly |
"Vox" <vox@dontryafrica.com> wrote in message
news:beucnSAFTOS06xWiU-KYvw@is.co.za...
>
> On 11-Oct-2003, "oldmolly" <oldmolly1@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > > Try giving her some vit C as well. I know they are supposed to
> > > synthesise
> > > their
> > > own
> > Not just 'supposed', they actually *do*.
> >
> > >and they do, but not enough in my experience.
> >
> > Please explain this. Have you found a way to measure the amount in
their
> > body? What is the correct amount for a bird of this size, how much not
> > enough do they make and how did you find this out.
>
> OM,
> why don't you READ messages before you stick your foot in your mouth?
> I said they DO synthesise Vit C in the very next line which you so kindly
> quoted for me.
> It is well documented that birds tested, after undergoing stress, have no
> Vit C in their system. I believe the example quoted is of birds which had
> just been shipped. If it were anyone else but you, I would look up the
> reference, I may be wrong but I think it is documented in Harrison
Harrison
> &Ritchie as well. You can look it up for yourself.
But you said with reference to how much vitamin C they produce "but not
enough in my experience"
I want to know what *your* experience is. How you measured the amount and
what was the 'normal' amount. I am referring to normal pet birds without any
undue stress placed upon them like shipping etc. I want to know what *your*
experience is with regards to the above.
|
|
|
| Jenny |
Oh Molly, you're a Riot Dear!
Love you!!!!!!
Jenny
"oldmolly" <oldmolly1@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:x0bib.813$mM1.533@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
>
> "Vox" <vox@dontryafrica.com> wrote in message
> news:uY2dnbBYu-VGjxSiU-KYjA@is.co.za...
> >
> > On 12-Oct-2003, "Steve" <mynameis_mj@notasecret.com> wrote:
> >
> > > So your "experience" is other peoples documentation of stressed birds?
> > >
> > > Does this mean that you think my unstressed birds living their normal
> > > daily
> > > lives don't produce enough vit C?
> >
> > Piss off, asshole. I have had more years experience in birds than you
have
> > whiskers.
>
> Wahahahaha!!! ROFPMSL.
> Oh dearie me that made my day it really did. Someone else asked a totally
> valid question about your reference to "my experience" and you respond
with
> swearing and abuse. Oh too funny. I take it from your reaction little man,
> that you actually have little or no real experience???
>
>
>
> >Who in hell was discussing your ' unstressed birds' in the first
> > place?
> This is usenet little man, anyone may post as they see fit in response to
a
> topic.
>
> > We were discussing an African Grey which has started plucking
> > after 9 years. Apparently the Vet's opinion is that it is so stressed,
> > he/she
> > has the bird on Valium.
> And you offered an opinion based on your supposed 'experience' and then
got
> abusive and refused to answer when Steve and I asked about your experience
> in this field. Add to that that the poster's avian vet has actually seen
and
> examined the bird and you have nothing more to go on than a usenet post
and
> it seems, little man, that you are talking out of a hole in your bum chum.
>
> >our birds living their normal daily lives DONT
> > produce enough Vit C to cope with stress.
> How do you know this, given that stress is perfectly normal and natural
in
> wild birds. They suffer stress daily, it is all part of being able to stay
> alive in the face of drought, hunger and predation. Stress is normal
little
> man.
>
> >Do yourself a favour and read
> > the label on any anti stress medication---- they all contain Vit C.
> > If you are spoiling for a fight------ sign up and go to Iraq.
> > That is, unless you were trolling for a date with OM or Mammabird?
> Can't speak for Mama, but I would rather have a date with Steve, than a
> dwarfish south african boor (deliberately misspelled) any day.
>
>
|
|
|
| Vox |
On 12-Oct-2003, "oldmolly" <oldmolly1@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> But you said with reference to how much vitamin C they produce "but not
> enough in my experience"
> I want to know what *your* experience is. How you measured the amount and
> what was the 'normal' amount. I am referring to normal pet birds without
> any
> undue stress placed upon them like shipping etc. I want to know what
> *your*
> experience is with regards to the above.
My experience is that I have had losses due to stress, particularly when
catching up wild-caughts prior to shipping them. Those losses decreased
dramatically when I started dosing with a Vit C supplement BEFORE handling
them. If you expected me to say that I do my own blood tests and have my
own laboratory for analysis, I would have to dissapoint you. Sorry old bag,
better luck next time. You are reading things which were not said now.
The discussion in question was specifically about a Grey which the
Vet had diagnosed as sufficiently stressed to warrant prescribing a sedative
as strong as Valium. If a Vet has diagnosed stress, who am I to argue
that the bird was not stressed, particularly when I had not seen it myself?
For that matter, who are you to have decided so?
If you are trying to say that Vit C for stress, is the wrong treatment, or
that it is in any way possible to harm a bird by supplementing with Vit C
then come out with it and say so, otherwise ' hob de gob '.
Vox.
|
|
|
| Vox |
On 12-Oct-2003, "oldmolly" <oldmolly1@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > Piss off, asshole. I have had more years experience in birds than you
> > have
> > whiskers.
>
> Wahahahaha!!! ROFPMSL.
> Oh dearie me that made my day it really did. Someone else asked a totally
> valid question about your reference to "my experience" and you respond
> with
> swearing and abuse.
Small things do amuse small minds. If piss off asshole is swearing and
abuse,
then I have seen you respond on occasions with gross profanity.
The rest of your post has already been answered, other than the point about
a
' valid' question. This rectal excuse had the effrontery to suggest that I
was discussing
his birds when the entire thread had been about one African Grey owned by
someone else. IMO he was simply trying to score brownie points with certain
middle aged females on the list who shall remain nameless for now
to preserve peace and harmony.
Vox.
|
|
|
| oldmolly |
"Vox" <vox@dontryafrica.com> wrote in message
news:e_-dnR5rSI5cBBSiU-KYiA@is.co.za...
>
> On 12-Oct-2003, "oldmolly" <oldmolly1@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > > Piss off, asshole. I have had more years experience in birds than you
> > > have
> > > whiskers.
> >
> > Wahahahaha!!! ROFPMSL.
> > Oh dearie me that made my day it really did. Someone else asked a
totally
> > valid question about your reference to "my experience" and you respond
> > with
> > swearing and abuse.
>
> Small things do amuse small minds. If piss off asshole is swearing and
> abuse,
> then I have seen you respond on occasions with gross profanity.
Please provide me with a link to this evidence as I am not in the habit of
using foul language.
|
|
|
| oldmolly |
"Vox" <vox@dontryafrica.com> wrote in message
news:e_-dnR9rSI4jBBSiU-KYiA@is.co.za...
>
> On 12-Oct-2003, "oldmolly" <oldmolly1@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > But you said with reference to how much vitamin C they produce "but not
> > enough in my experience"
> > I want to know what *your* experience is. How you measured the amount
and
> > what was the 'normal' amount. I am referring to normal pet birds without
> > any
> > undue stress placed upon them like shipping etc. I want to know what
> > *your*
> > experience is with regards to the above.
>
> My experience is that I have had losses due to stress, particularly when
> catching up wild-caughts prior to shipping them. Those losses decreased
> dramatically when I started dosing with a Vit C supplement BEFORE handling
> them. If you expected me to say that I do my own blood tests and have my
> own laboratory for analysis, I would have to dissapoint you. Sorry old
bag,
> better luck next time. You are reading things which were not said now.
> The discussion in question was specifically about a Grey which the
> Vet had diagnosed as sufficiently stressed to warrant prescribing a
sedative
> as strong as Valium. If a Vet has diagnosed stress, who am I to argue
> that the bird was not stressed, particularly when I had not seen it
myself?
> For that matter, who are you to have decided so?
> If you are trying to say that Vit C for stress, is the wrong treatment, or
> that it is in any way possible to harm a bird by supplementing with Vit C
> then come out with it and say so, otherwise ' hob de gob '.
> Vox.
I'm saying nothing. You are the one doing all the talking. I merely asked
you a question with regard to your experience in the field of vitamin C
deficiency, and the normal levels of vitamin C in parrots.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
