| Re: cockatiels - CLICK HERE for the Pet Manual Forum Home Page |
| Mamabird |
> > I have a year old male.but I have one problem,he's tearing his feathers
> > out,he makes a loud noise when he does this.I bathe him 2-3 times a
week
> > and make sure he's dry. so can anyone tell me why he's doing this?he's
a
> > very happy bird and I don't think ive done anything
wrong...........thanks
> > ...Ann
> | "Manu-man" <manu-man@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
> | news:uX8hb.172676$JA5.4326748@news.xtra.co.nz...
> | > Yes Jamiroquai is right about that. I have a cockatiel that only
plucks
> under her wings and I did research about it and the fact was she got
board when
> I was out. She has a few mates in the cage now plus things to do in the
cage.
> Bells and a small ball on the floor of the cage. This problem is with
most
> parrots from cockatiels up to cockatoos.
> |> "Mamabird" <spam@goaway.com> wrote in message...
> | Giardia is also a problem with most parrots from tiels to toos... with
tiels
> being the most susceptible. The "loud noise" the bird makes when pulling
its
> feathers that the OP mentioned is a clue that Giardia is the likely
cause.
> | The bird should go to a vet.
"Digital_Cowboy" <nobody@nobody.com> wrote in message
news:vrphb.28592$pv6.21418@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> MB,
>
> Not to belittle what you are currently going through with yourself
and your
> birds. But ya almost sound like a recovering alcoholic who sees nothing
but
> drunks/alcoholics behind every glass of beer/wine/liquor/mixed drink.
And the
> cause of the feather plucking could very well be
environmental/psychological in
> nature and NOT do to any illness.
> And the screaming could also very well be because it hurts when it
pulls out
> it's feathers. And IF the introduction of a few toys, and/or moving the
cage to
> a new location stops the feather plucking. Then it would be a safe bet
that the
> feather plucking was environmental/psychological in nature.
WHAT?! Excuse me, but it sure as hell sounds like you're belittling me,
comparing me to a 'recovering alcoholic' just because I recommended this
person take their bird to a vet.
You know, cowboy, I was just beginning to like you. Too bad you blew it by
insulting me for no reason whatsoever. And yeah, I'm sure you don't care.
Just for the record, I don't care what you think of me either.
Giardia is a very REAL possibility with the symptoms this bird is showing.
Yes, the screaming IS because it is painful when the feathers are pulled.
The bird is frantic because of the severe itching caused from the parasite
infection, so it resorts to pulling out feathers as a desperate attempt to
stop the unbearable itching. It becomes a vicious cycle.
You're right, the feather pulling/screaming COULD be caused by something
else, but the FIRST thing a bird owner should do is take the bird to a vet
to rule out an illness, and go from there. Do you know Giardia can KILL a
bird?
I know this from firsthand experience. How much experience do YOU have with
sick birds, cowboy? How many of YOUR birds have had Giardia? How much have
you researched this dreadful disease?
I would be remiss in my observations and my responsibility to the OP if I
neglected to point out that this poor bird is showing symptoms of a
dangerous illness. Even if it's not Giardia it could very well be a number
of other illnesses.
If I understand you correctly, you would advise giving the bird a few toys
first, or moving the cage, thereby wasting precious time if the bird IS
sick? Tell me, how long exactly would you let the bird suffer while you're
experimenting with environmental changes? It's totally irresponsible for
anyone to tell someone to put off taking their bird, if it's showing
symptoms of an illness, to a vet for a proper diagnosis. I wouldn't want
someone's dead bird on MY conscience! But apparently it wouldn't bother
you....
|
|
|
| Digital_Cowboy |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
"Mamabird,"
I was applying the principal known as Occam's Razor in that the simplest
answer is usually the right answer. And yes I would feel terible IF someone
lost a bird because they delayed in getting it treatment. But how would you
feel IF someone spent hundreds IF not thousands of dollars on tests and what not
only to discover that it WAS either a lack of toys, human contact or an
enviromental cause that was causing the feather plucking???
And no I am not belittling you. And you can be correct in that it is
Giardia or some other diease or parasite, but it could also be something as
simple as a lack of toys/human interaction/enviromental issue. And what happens
IF adding more toys, spending more time with the bird, or relocating the cage
puts an end to the feather plucking? As well as the tests ruling out everything
that could be physically wrong with the bird?
Herman
"Mamabird" <spam@goaway.com> wrote in message
news:0GIhb.5508$av5.185@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
|
| WHAT?! Excuse me, but it sure as hell sounds like you're belittling me,
comparing me to a 'recovering alcoholic' just because I recommended this person
take their bird to a vet. You know, cowboy, I was just beginning to like you.
Too bad you blew it by insulting me for no reason whatsoever. And yeah, I'm sure
you don't care. Just for the record, I don't care what you think of me either.
|
| Giardia is a very REAL possibility with the symptoms this bird is showing.
Yes, the screaming IS because it is painful when the feathers are pulled. The
bird is frantic because of the severe itching caused from the parasite
infection, so it resorts to pulling out feathers as a desperate attempt to stop
the unbearable itching. It becomes a vicious cycle.
|
| You're right, the feather pulling/screaming COULD be caused by something else,
but the FIRST thing a bird owner should do is take the bird to a vet to rule out
an illness, and go from there. Do you know Giardia can KILL a bird? I know this
from firsthand experience. How much experience do YOU have with sick birds,
cowboy? How many of YOUR birds have had Giardia? How much have you researched
this dreadful disease? I would be remiss in my observations and my
responsibility to the OP if I neglected to point out that this poor bird is
showing symptoms of a dangerous illness. Even if it's not Giardia it could very
well be a number of other illnesses.
|
| If I understand you correctly, you would advise giving the bird a few toys
first, or moving the cage, thereby wasting precious time if the bird IS sick?
Tell me, how long exactly would you let the bird suffer while you're
experimenting with environmental changes? It's totally irresponsible for anyone
to tell someone to put off taking their bird, if it's showing symptoms of an
illness, to a vet for a proper diagnosis. I wouldn't want someone's dead bird on
MY conscience! But apparently it wouldn't bother you....
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 8.0
iQA/AwUBP4eJHx/i52nbE9vTEQL0sQCg526k78xB2ZAdkHtTUsf8hUOqqLAAoOjz
wFNcOeqfftgm64kXvYUCk7c1
=Ftgy
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
|
|
|
| Mamabird |
"Digital_Cowboy" <nobody@nobody.com> wrote in message
news:lNLhb.69826$lZ6.10928900@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> "Mamabird,"
>
> I was applying the principal known as Occam's Razor in that the
simplest
> answer is usually the right answer.
I have to wonder if the Occam's Razor principle was meant to apply to
life/death scenarios.
If so, I wonder why physician's don't employ it.
> And yes I would feel terible IF someone
> lost a bird because they delayed in getting it treatment. But how would
you
> feel IF someone spent hundreds IF not thousands of dollars on tests and
what not
> only to discover that it WAS either a lack of toys, human contact or an
> enviromental cause that was causing the feather plucking???
I'd feel relieved that the bird is healthy. Wouldn't you?
IF the cause was lack of toys/human contact, I'd say the owner shouldn't
have a bird to begin with.
> And no I am not belittling you. And you can be correct in that it is
> Giardia or some other diease or parasite, but it could also be something
as
> simple as a lack of toys/human interaction/enviromental issue.
Of course you were belittling me. I'd at least have a little respect for
you if you were honest about that.
I have already concurred that the feather plucking COULD be caused by
something other than illness, so why keep bringing it up? Didn't you read
my post? Guess not since you didn't answer any of MY questions.
I'd like to add that most birds that feather pluck for non-illness related
reasons usually don't scream while they're plucking. The screaming is a key
clue in this particular case.
> And what happens
> IF adding more toys, spending more time with the bird, or relocating the
cage
> puts an end to the feather plucking? As well as the tests ruling out
everything
> that could be physically wrong with the bird?
Nothing happens. You have a healthy bird.
> "Mamabird" <spam@goaway.com> wrote in message
> news:0GIhb.5508$av5.185@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> |
> | WHAT?! Excuse me, but it sure as hell sounds like you're belittling me,
> comparing me to a 'recovering alcoholic' just because I recommended this
person
> take their bird to a vet. You know, cowboy, I was just beginning to like
you.
> Too bad you blew it by insulting me for no reason whatsoever. And yeah,
I'm sure
> you don't care. Just for the record, I don't care what you think of me
either.
> |
> | Giardia is a very REAL possibility with the symptoms this bird is
showing.
> Yes, the screaming IS because it is painful when the feathers are pulled.
The
> bird is frantic because of the severe itching caused from the parasite
> infection, so it resorts to pulling out feathers as a desperate attempt
to stop
> the unbearable itching. It becomes a vicious cycle.
> |
> | You're right, the feather pulling/screaming COULD be caused by
something else,
> but the FIRST thing a bird owner should do is take the bird to a vet to
rule out
> an illness, and go from there. Do you know Giardia can KILL a bird? I
know this
> from firsthand experience. How much experience do YOU have with sick
birds,
> cowboy? How many of YOUR birds have had Giardia? How much have you
researched
> this dreadful disease? I would be remiss in my observations and my
> responsibility to the OP if I neglected to point out that this poor bird
is
> showing symptoms of a dangerous illness. Even if it's not Giardia it
could very
> well be a number of other illnesses.
> |
> | If I understand you correctly, you would advise giving the bird a few
toys
> first, or moving the cage, thereby wasting precious time if the bird IS
sick?
> Tell me, how long exactly would you let the bird suffer while you're
> experimenting with environmental changes? It's totally irresponsible for
anyone
> to tell someone to put off taking their bird, if it's showing symptoms of
an
> illness, to a vet for a proper diagnosis. I wouldn't want someone's dead
bird on
> MY conscience! But apparently it wouldn't bother you....
|
|
|
| Digital_Cowboy |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
"Mamabird,"
A very good example of how you could be wrong and how/why one should apply
Occam's Razor first is this:
I have spent 11 years in the US Army as a Combat Medic, and as such I know
that two or more diseases/illness' can have the same symptoms. Or that certain
meds can also have side effects that mirror the symptoms of a disease/illness.
Case in point, I have a family history of Adult Onset Diabetes. And I also
have ADHD and I am on Amitriptyline HCL to help me to sleep at night. Now then
one of the side effects of Amitriptyline HCL is dry mouth, and likewise one of
the symptoms of Diabetes is dry mouth. Now then MB to use your logic because I
have dry mouth, and those with Diabetes also have had dry mouth, I MUST have
Diabetes. . .
But by every six months or so of ceasing to take my Amitriptyline HCL until
it's worked it's way out of my system, and the dry mouth likewise disappears. I
can say that by using Occam's Razor that I can deduce that the reason for my dry
mouth is the med(s) that I am on, and NOT because I have developed Diabetes.
Herman
"Mamabird" <spam@goaway.com> wrote in message
news:0GIhb.5508$av5.185@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| WHAT?! Excuse me, but it sure as hell sounds like you're belittling me,
| comparing me to a 'recovering alcoholic' just because I recommended this
| person take their bird to a vet.
| You know, cowboy, I was just beginning to like you. Too bad you blew it by
| insulting me for no reason whatsoever. And yeah, I'm sure you don't care.
| Just for the record, I don't care what you think of me either.
|
| Giardia is a very REAL possibility with the symptoms this bird is showing.
| Yes, the screaming IS because it is painful when the feathers are pulled.
| The bird is frantic because of the severe itching caused from the parasite
| infection, so it resorts to pulling out feathers as a desperate attempt to
| stop the unbearable itching. It becomes a vicious cycle.
|
| You're right, the feather pulling/screaming COULD be caused by something
| else, but the FIRST thing a bird owner should do is take the bird to a vet
| to rule out an illness, and go from there. Do you know Giardia can KILL a
| bird?
| I know this from firsthand experience. How much experience do YOU have with
| sick birds, cowboy? How many of YOUR birds have had Giardia? How much have
| you researched this dreadful disease?
| I would be remiss in my observations and my responsibility to the OP if I
| neglected to point out that this poor bird is showing symptoms of a
| dangerous illness. Even if it's not Giardia it could very well be a number
| of other illnesses.
|
| If I understand you correctly, you would advise giving the bird a few toys
| first, or moving the cage, thereby wasting precious time if the bird IS
| sick? Tell me, how long exactly would you let the bird suffer while you're
| experimenting with environmental changes? It's totally irresponsible for
| anyone to tell someone to put off taking their bird, if it's showing
| symptoms of an illness, to a vet for a proper diagnosis. I wouldn't want
| someone's dead bird on MY conscience! But apparently it wouldn't bother
| you....
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 8.0
iQA/AwUBP4el4h/i52nbE9vTEQLkTQCeP52hhWxr5fwvWs7VlT/c4aQ+EdIAoJo7
4v3S5ArqadCsOZEONSwgdDPi
=zC9d
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
|
|
|
| Mamabird |
"Digital_Cowboy" <nobody@nobody.com> wrote in message
news:bzWhb.71252$lZ6.11120443@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> "Mamabird,"
>
> A very good example of how you could be wrong and how/why one should
apply
> Occam's Razor first is this:
>
> I have spent 11 years in the US Army as a Combat Medic, and as such I
know
> that two or more diseases/illness' can have the same symptoms. Or that
certain
> meds can also have side effects that mirror the symptoms of a
disease/illness.
Okay, cowboy, this is getting old and this will be my FINAL response on
this subject.
I never spent time in the Army as a combat medic and *I* also know
everything you say in this paragraph is true.
So what?
(BTW - I worked as a Vet's assistant for 4 years.)
> Case in point, I have a family history of Adult Onset Diabetes. And
I also
> have ADHD and I am on Amitriptyline HCL to help me to sleep at night.
Now then
> one of the side effects of Amitriptyline HCL is dry mouth, and likewise
one of
> the symptoms of Diabetes is dry mouth. Now then MB to use your logic
because I
> have dry mouth, and those with Diabetes also have had dry mouth, I MUST
have
> Diabetes. . .
DAMMIT!!!! When did I say the bird in question MUST have Giardia or any
other disease? Answer: I NEVER SAID THAT! I said it was a *possibility* and
should be checked out by an avain vet. Period.
> But by every six months or so of ceasing to take my Amitriptyline HCL
until
> it's worked it's way out of my system, and the dry mouth likewise
disappears. I
> can say that by using Occam's Razor that I can deduce that the reason for
my dry
> mouth is the med(s) that I am on, and NOT because I have developed
Diabetes.
I've taken amitriptyline for 25 years for clinical depression. I KNOW the
side effects... including dry mouth.
So, give it a rest, cowboy. Stop putting words in my (dry) mouth and
talking to me like I'm too dumb to "get it." I'm not.
I still maintain the bird that is screaming and pulling out feathers should
be seen by a vet IN CASE AN ILLNESS IS THE CAUSE. Nothing you say will
change my mind.
<SIGH>
> "Mamabird" <spam@goaway.com> wrote in message
> news:0GIhb.5508$av5.185@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> | WHAT?! Excuse me, but it sure as hell sounds like you're belittling me,
> | comparing me to a 'recovering alcoholic' just because I recommended
this
> | person take their bird to a vet.
> | You know, cowboy, I was just beginning to like you. Too bad you blew it
by
> | insulting me for no reason whatsoever. And yeah, I'm sure you don't
care.
> | Just for the record, I don't care what you think of me either.
> |
> | Giardia is a very REAL possibility with the symptoms this bird is
showing.
> | Yes, the screaming IS because it is painful when the feathers are
pulled.
> | The bird is frantic because of the severe itching caused from the
parasite
> | infection, so it resorts to pulling out feathers as a desperate attempt
to
> | stop the unbearable itching. It becomes a vicious cycle.
> |
> | You're right, the feather pulling/screaming COULD be caused by
something
> | else, but the FIRST thing a bird owner should do is take the bird to a
vet
> | to rule out an illness, and go from there. Do you know Giardia can KILL
a
> | bird?
> | I know this from firsthand experience. How much experience do YOU have
with
> | sick birds, cowboy? How many of YOUR birds have had Giardia? How much
have
> | you researched this dreadful disease?
> | I would be remiss in my observations and my responsibility to the OP if
I
> | neglected to point out that this poor bird is showing symptoms of a
> | dangerous illness. Even if it's not Giardia it could very well be a
number
> | of other illnesses.
> |
> | If I understand you correctly, you would advise giving the bird a few
toys
> | first, or moving the cage, thereby wasting precious time if the bird IS
> | sick? Tell me, how long exactly would you let the bird suffer while
you're
> | experimenting with environmental changes? It's totally irresponsible
for
> | anyone to tell someone to put off taking their bird, if it's showing
> | symptoms of an illness, to a vet for a proper diagnosis. I wouldn't
want
> | someone's dead bird on MY conscience! But apparently it wouldn't bother
> | you....
> |
|
|
|
| Digital_Cowboy |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
"MB,"
Right now I've only got the last 6 or 7 posts to this thread, you may or may
not have more of them. If you do and you go back and re-read them you'll see
that I am/was not the only one to make the suggestion that the feather plucking
was for reasons other then disease/illness.
Yes, I would feel relived to know that the cause of the birds feather
plucking was not do to a disease/illness. But IF simply moving the cage to a
new
location, adding more toys, or spending more time with the bird(s) was to cause
the plucking to cease. Then wouldn't that be a good indicator that it wasn't do
to a disease/illness???
I had a wild caught Senegal while I was stationed at Ft. Riley in Ks. When
I was discharged and getting ready to return to Fl I had taken him over to KSU
(they had a vet hospital/class there) for a complete check-up. As a result of
his check-up on my way home he passed away in my lap. We turned around and went
back to KSU and as we were heading back I was doing mouth-to-beak but
unfortunately it didn't do any good and I did lose him.
When KSU did a necropsy they'd found out that he had had a bacterial
infection that the stress of the exam made worse and that that is what had
killed him. So it is entirely possible that while the feather plucking is NOT
disease/illness related, that the bird could have an infection that is acerbated
by
the exam and because of the stress of the exam passes away. And it would not be
unreasonable to connect the feather plucking with the birds passing now would
it. . .
And yes I would agree with you 100 and 10 percent that IF the reason for the
feather plucking IS because of either a lack of toys/human contact that said
person should not have a bird. Or at the very least not a single bird, but
environmental elements as well as a full history of the birds activities is just
as important as ruling out a medical reason.
Herman
"Mamabird" <spam@goaway.com> wrote in message
news:yHVhb.6166$av5.1554@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| "Digital_Cowboy" <nobody@nobody.com> wrote in message
| news:lNLhb.69826$lZ6.10928900@twister.nyc.rr.com...
| >
| > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
| > Hash: SHA1
| >
| > "Mamabird,"
| >
| > I was applying the principal known as Occam's Razor in that the
| simplest
| > answer is usually the right answer.
|
| I have to wonder if the Occam's Razor principle was meant to apply to
| life/death scenarios.
| If so, I wonder why physician's don't employ it.
|
| > And yes I would feel terible IF someone
| > lost a bird because they delayed in getting it treatment. But how would
| you
| > feel IF someone spent hundreds IF not thousands of dollars on tests and
| what not
| > only to discover that it WAS either a lack of toys, human contact or an
| > enviromental cause that was causing the feather plucking???
|
| I'd feel relieved that the bird is healthy. Wouldn't you?
| IF the cause was lack of toys/human contact, I'd say the owner shouldn't
| have a bird to begin with.
|
| > And no I am not belittling you. And you can be correct in that it is
| > Giardia or some other diease or parasite, but it could also be something
| as
| > simple as a lack of toys/human interaction/enviromental issue.
|
| Of course you were belittling me. I'd at least have a little respect for
| you if you were honest about that.
| I have already concurred that the feather plucking COULD be caused by
| something other than illness, so why keep bringing it up? Didn't you read
| my post? Guess not since you didn't answer any of MY questions.
| I'd like to add that most birds that feather pluck for non-illness related
| reasons usually don't scream while they're plucking. The screaming is a key
| clue in this particular case.
|
| > And what happens
| > IF adding more toys, spending more time with the bird, or relocating the
| cage
| > puts an end to the feather plucking? As well as the tests ruling out
| everything
| > that could be physically wrong with the bird?
|
| Nothing happens. You have a healthy bird.
|
| > "Mamabird" <spam@goaway.com> wrote in message
| > news:0GIhb.5508$av5.185@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| > |
| > | WHAT?! Excuse me, but it sure as hell sounds like you're belittling me,
| > comparing me to a 'recovering alcoholic' just because I recommended this
| person
| > take their bird to a vet. You know, cowboy, I was just beginning to like
| you.
| > Too bad you blew it by insulting me for no reason whatsoever. And yeah,
| I'm sure
| > you don't care. Just for the record, I don't care what you think of me
| either.
| > |
| > | Giardia is a very REAL possibility with the symptoms this bird is
| showing.
| > Yes, the screaming IS because it is painful when the feathers are pulled.
| The
| > bird is frantic because of the severe itching caused from the parasite
| > infection, so it resorts to pulling out feathers as a desperate attempt
| to stop
| > the unbearable itching. It becomes a vicious cycle.
| > |
| > | You're right, the feather pulling/screaming COULD be caused by
| something else,
| > but the FIRST thing a bird owner should do is take the bird to a vet to
| rule out
| > an illness, and go from there. Do you know Giardia can KILL a bird? I
| know this
| > from firsthand experience. How much experience do YOU have with sick
| birds,
| > cowboy? How many of YOUR birds have had Giardia? How much have you
| researched
| > this dreadful disease? I would be remiss in my observations and my
| > responsibility to the OP if I neglected to point out that this poor bird
| is
| > showing symptoms of a dangerous illness. Even if it's not Giardia it
| could very
| > well be a number of other illnesses.
| > |
| > | If I understand you correctly, you would advise giving the bird a few
| toys
| > first, or moving the cage, thereby wasting precious time if the bird IS
| sick?
| > Tell me, how long exactly would you let the bird suffer while you're
| > experimenting with environmental changes? It's totally irresponsible for
| anyone
| > to tell someone to put off taking their bird, if it's showing symptoms of
| an
| > illness, to a vet for a proper diagnosis. I wouldn't want someone's dead
| bird on
| > MY conscience! But apparently it wouldn't bother you....
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 8.0
iQA/AwUBP4hEZB/i52nbE9vTEQJBJgCg0zOXr/9NiF864YZC5YZT6u/d900AniTo
41YYae9ukahXnjOiBhKcRW/X
=R2sC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
|
|
|
| Ian |
Hey Guys ...... STOP SHOUTING............please ....pretty please?? :-)
You've both made your own very individual, very valid points...... as long
as the Birdy gets seen by an Avian Vet is what really matters...... RIGHT??
and gets any treatment needed.......RIGHT??
I have 'spoken' to both of you on many occasions and I respect the BOTH of
you for your advice and concern for Poppet, which has been gratefully
received, and I WON't see friends argue!!......RIGHT?? {stomps feet on
ground!!}
There are enough AS%*OLES on this board at times.....RIGHT??
So please please please....... lets not argue amongst ourselves, I say this
even though I am a Newbie to this NG, there's enough other people to argue
with, and all in all it just ain't worth it....RIGHT??
Life's too short.....RIGHT??
So PLEASE just chill and quit the arguing......please :-)
Your friend
Ian
PS. Jeez.... I never knew I was so philosophical!! :-)) and such a calming
influence too..... hint, hint ;-) LOL
"Mamabird" <spam@goaway.com> wrote in message
news:mlXhb.6644$av5.4536@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "Digital_Cowboy" <nobody@nobody.com> wrote in message
> news:bzWhb.71252$lZ6.11120443@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> > "Mamabird,"
> >
> > A very good example of how you could be wrong and how/why one should
> apply
> > Occam's Razor first is this:
> >
> > I have spent 11 years in the US Army as a Combat Medic, and as such
I
> know
> > that two or more diseases/illness' can have the same symptoms. Or that
> certain
> > meds can also have side effects that mirror the symptoms of a
> disease/illness.
>
> Okay, cowboy, this is getting old and this will be my FINAL response on
> this subject.
>
> I never spent time in the Army as a combat medic and *I* also know
> everything you say in this paragraph is true.
> So what?
> (BTW - I worked as a Vet's assistant for 4 years.)
>
> > Case in point, I have a family history of Adult Onset Diabetes. And
> I also
> > have ADHD and I am on Amitriptyline HCL to help me to sleep at night.
> Now then
> > one of the side effects of Amitriptyline HCL is dry mouth, and likewise
> one of
> > the symptoms of Diabetes is dry mouth. Now then MB to use your logic
> because I
> > have dry mouth, and those with Diabetes also have had dry mouth, I MUST
> have
> > Diabetes. . .
>
> DAMMIT!!!! When did I say the bird in question MUST have Giardia or any
> other disease? Answer: I NEVER SAID THAT! I said it was a *possibility*
and
> should be checked out by an avain vet. Period.
>
> > But by every six months or so of ceasing to take my Amitriptyline
HCL
> until
> > it's worked it's way out of my system, and the dry mouth likewise
> disappears. I
> > can say that by using Occam's Razor that I can deduce that the reason
for
> my dry
> > mouth is the med(s) that I am on, and NOT because I have developed
> Diabetes.
>
> I've taken amitriptyline for 25 years for clinical depression. I KNOW the
> side effects... including dry mouth.
> So, give it a rest, cowboy. Stop putting words in my (dry) mouth and
> talking to me like I'm too dumb to "get it." I'm not.
> I still maintain the bird that is screaming and pulling out feathers
should
> be seen by a vet IN CASE AN ILLNESS IS THE CAUSE. Nothing you say will
> change my mind.
> <SIGH>
>
> > "Mamabird" <spam@goaway.com> wrote in message
> > news:0GIhb.5508$av5.185@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > | WHAT?! Excuse me, but it sure as hell sounds like you're belittling
me,
> > | comparing me to a 'recovering alcoholic' just because I recommended
> this
> > | person take their bird to a vet.
> > | You know, cowboy, I was just beginning to like you. Too bad you blew
it
> by
> > | insulting me for no reason whatsoever. And yeah, I'm sure you don't
> care.
> > | Just for the record, I don't care what you think of me either.
> > |
> > | Giardia is a very REAL possibility with the symptoms this bird is
> showing.
> > | Yes, the screaming IS because it is painful when the feathers are
> pulled.
> > | The bird is frantic because of the severe itching caused from the
> parasite
> > | infection, so it resorts to pulling out feathers as a desperate
attempt
> to
> > | stop the unbearable itching. It becomes a vicious cycle.
> > |
> > | You're right, the feather pulling/screaming COULD be caused by
> something
> > | else, but the FIRST thing a bird owner should do is take the bird to a
> vet
> > | to rule out an illness, and go from there. Do you know Giardia can
KILL
> a
> > | bird?
> > | I know this from firsthand experience. How much experience do YOU have
> with
> > | sick birds, cowboy? How many of YOUR birds have had Giardia? How much
> have
> > | you researched this dreadful disease?
> > | I would be remiss in my observations and my responsibility to the OP
if
> I
> > | neglected to point out that this poor bird is showing symptoms of a
> > | dangerous illness. Even if it's not Giardia it could very well be a
> number
> > | of other illnesses.
> > |
> > | If I understand you correctly, you would advise giving the bird a few
> toys
> > | first, or moving the cage, thereby wasting precious time if the bird
IS
> > | sick? Tell me, how long exactly would you let the bird suffer while
> you're
> > | experimenting with environmental changes? It's totally irresponsible
> for
> > | anyone to tell someone to put off taking their bird, if it's showing
> > | symptoms of an illness, to a vet for a proper diagnosis. I wouldn't
> want
> > | someone's dead bird on MY conscience! But apparently it wouldn't
bother
> > | you....
> > |
>
|
|
|
| oldmolly |
"Digital_Cowboy" <nobody@nobody.com> wrote in message
news:lNLhb.69826$lZ6.10928900@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> "Mamabird,"
>
> I was applying the principal known as Occam's Razor in that the
simplest
> answer is usually the right answer. And yes I would feel terible IF
someone
> lost a bird because they delayed in getting it treatment. But how would
you
> feel IF someone spent hundreds IF not thousands of dollars on tests
Flipping norah. Where do you live that a giardia test costs thousands of
dollars?!?!?!?!
|
|
|
| Digital_Cowboy |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
"OM,"
I was just saying that it is possible for ALL of the cumulative tests to end
up running in the hundreds, if not thousands of dollars. And that when all is
said and done it could have been something as simple as relocating the cage, or
adding or even removing extra toys. Or providing more contact with it's
flockmates.
Herman
"oldmolly" <oldmolly1@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:ta_hb.445$mM1.363@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
|
| "Digital_Cowboy" <nobody@nobody.com> wrote in message
| news:lNLhb.69826$lZ6.10928900@twister.nyc.rr.com...
| >
| > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
| > Hash: SHA1
| >
| > "Mamabird,"
| >
| > I was applying the principal known as Occam's Razor in that the
| simplest
| > answer is usually the right answer. And yes I would feel terible IF
| someone
| > lost a bird because they delayed in getting it treatment. But how would
| you
| > feel IF someone spent hundreds IF not thousands of dollars on tests
|
| Flipping norah. Where do you live that a giardia test costs thousands of
| dollars?!?!?!?!
|
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 8.0
iQA/AwUBP4h9TB/i52nbE9vTEQICkACg0Lk5sQm/owpNwN4kZf0BxVEEYrcAoPlE
yVscwAFpcysAP48JKK+CrBJ9
=djPt
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
|
|
|
| Digital_Cowboy |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Ok, Ian. I was just trying to point out that there could be any number of
reasons for the feather plucking, and that the Giardia that MB is dealing with
is just one of countless possibilities. And that all avenues should be
explored. And you are 100% right in that all of our feathered children need
regular visits with a fully qualified Avian Vet to maintain their health.
And of course it also goes without saying that we of the various NGs will more
likely then not ever know the full history of a person and their birds so we can
only make a best guess based on our various experiences.
Herman
"Ian" <lovebytes@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:tqYhb.37$ny5.20@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
| Hey Guys ...... STOP SHOUTING............please ....pretty please?? :-)
| You've both made your own very individual, very valid points...... as long
| as the Birdy gets seen by an Avian Vet is what really matters...... RIGHT??
| and gets any treatment needed.......RIGHT??
| I have 'spoken' to both of you on many occasions and I respect the BOTH of
| you for your advice and concern for Poppet, which has been gratefully
| received, and I WON't see friends argue!!......RIGHT?? {stomps feet on
| ground!!}
| There are enough AS%*OLES on this board at times.....RIGHT??
| So please please please....... lets not argue amongst ourselves, I say this
| even though I am a Newbie to this NG, there's enough other people to argue
| with, and all in all it just ain't worth it....RIGHT??
| Life's too short.....RIGHT??
| So PLEASE just chill and quit the arguing......please :-)
| Your friend
| Ian
|
| PS. Jeez.... I never knew I was so philosophical!! :-)) and such a calming
| influence too..... hint, hint ;-) LOL
|
|
| "Mamabird" <spam@goaway.com> wrote in message
| news:mlXhb.6644$av5.4536@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| > "Digital_Cowboy" <nobody@nobody.com> wrote in message
| > news:bzWhb.71252$lZ6.11120443@twister.nyc.rr.com...
| > > "Mamabird,"
| > >
| > > A very good example of how you could be wrong and how/why one should
| > apply
| > > Occam's Razor first is this:
| > >
| > > I have spent 11 years in the US Army as a Combat Medic, and as such
| I
| > know
| > > that two or more diseases/illness' can have the same symptoms. Or that
| > certain
| > > meds can also have side effects that mirror the symptoms of a
| > disease/illness.
| >
| > Okay, cowboy, this is getting old and this will be my FINAL response on
| > this subject.
| >
| > I never spent time in the Army as a combat medic and *I* also know
| > everything you say in this paragraph is true.
| > So what?
| > (BTW - I worked as a Vet's assistant for 4 years.)
| >
| > > Case in point, I have a family history of Adult Onset Diabetes. And
| > I also
| > > have ADHD and I am on Amitriptyline HCL to help me to sleep at night.
| > Now then
| > > one of the side effects of Amitriptyline HCL is dry mouth, and likewise
| > one of
| > > the symptoms of Diabetes is dry mouth. Now then MB to use your logic
| > because I
| > > have dry mouth, and those with Diabetes also have had dry mouth, I MUST
| > have
| > > Diabetes. . .
| >
| > DAMMIT!!!! When did I say the bird in question MUST have Giardia or any
| > other disease? Answer: I NEVER SAID THAT! I said it was a *possibility*
| and
| > should be checked out by an avain vet. Period.
| >
| > > But by every six months or so of ceasing to take my Amitriptyline
| HCL
| > until
| > > it's worked it's way out of my system, and the dry mouth likewise
| > disappears. I
| > > can say that by using Occam's Razor that I can deduce that the reason
| for
| > my dry
| > > mouth is the med(s) that I am on, and NOT because I have developed
| > Diabetes.
| >
| > I've taken amitriptyline for 25 years for clinical depression. I KNOW the
| > side effects... including dry mouth.
| > So, give it a rest, cowboy. Stop putting words in my (dry) mouth and
| > talking to me like I'm too dumb to "get it." I'm not.
| > I still maintain the bird that is screaming and pulling out feathers
| should
| > be seen by a vet IN CASE AN ILLNESS IS THE CAUSE. Nothing you say will
| > change my mind.
| > <SIGH>
| >
| > > "Mamabird" <spam@goaway.com> wrote in message
| > > news:0GIhb.5508$av5.185@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| > > | WHAT?! Excuse me, but it sure as hell sounds like you're belittling
| me,
| > > | comparing me to a 'recovering alcoholic' just because I recommended
| > this
| > > | person take their bird to a vet.
| > > | You know, cowboy, I was just beginning to like you. Too bad you blew
| it
| > by
| > > | insulting me for no reason whatsoever. And yeah, I'm sure you don't
| > care.
| > > | Just for the record, I don't care what you think of me either.
| > > |
| > > | Giardia is a very REAL possibility with the symptoms this bird is
| > showing.
| > > | Yes, the screaming IS because it is painful when the feathers are
| > pulled.
| > > | The bird is frantic because of the severe itching caused from the
| > parasite
| > > | infection, so it resorts to pulling out feathers as a desperate
| attempt
| > to
| > > | stop the unbearable itching. It becomes a vicious cycle.
| > > |
| > > | You're right, the feather pulling/screaming COULD be caused by
| > something
| > > | else, but the FIRST thing a bird owner should do is take the bird to a
| > vet
| > > | to rule out an illness, and go from there. Do you know Giardia can
| KILL
| > a
| > > | bird?
| > > | I know this from firsthand experience. How much experience do YOU have
| > with
| > > | sick birds, cowboy? How many of YOUR birds have had Giardia? How much
| > have
| > > | you researched this dreadful disease?
| > > | I would be remiss in my observations and my responsibility to the OP
| if
| > I
| > > | neglected to point out that this poor bird is showing symptoms of a
| > > | dangerous illness. Even if it's not Giardia it could very well be a
| > number
| > > | of other illnesses.
| > > |
| > > | If I understand you correctly, you would advise giving the bird a few
| > toys
| > > | first, or moving the cage, thereby wasting precious time if the bird
| IS
| > > | sick? Tell me, how long exactly would you let the bird suffer while
| > you're
| > > | experimenting with environmental changes? It's totally irresponsible
| > for
| > > | anyone to tell someone to put off taking their bird, if it's showing
| > > | symptoms of an illness, to a vet for a proper diagnosis. I wouldn't
| > want
| > > | someone's dead bird on MY conscience! But apparently it wouldn't
| bother
| > > | you....
| > > |
| >
|
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 8.0
iQA/AwUBP4ih2x/i52nbE9vTEQKrDwCfX8+RmHKD1nu5cVn8eB4h+iIvQ/sAn0c9
0FDniboAME0HgGaVuLZkuXcE
=XTkT
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
|
|
|
| NaDeana |
The main point is though, that feather plucking and screaming while feather
plucking in a cockatiel is alarming and the main signs of giardia. Just get
the bird tested for giardia, and rule it out. Cockatiels are not known to be
feather pluckers (there are exceptions of course), unlike cockatoos, so this
behaviour is usually thought to involve some sort of health problem, not a
psychological problem.
"Digital_Cowboy" <nobody@nobody.com> wrote in message
news:fe2ib.64862$nU6.11516346@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Ok, Ian. I was just trying to point out that there could be any number of
> reasons for the feather plucking, and that the Giardia that MB is dealing
with
> is just one of countless possibilities. And that all avenues should be
> explored. And you are 100% right in that all of our feathered children
need
> regular visits with a fully qualified Avian Vet to maintain their health.
>
> And of course it also goes without saying that we of the various NGs will
more
> likely then not ever know the full history of a person and their birds so
we can
> only make a best guess based on our various experiences.
>
> Herman
> "Ian" <lovebytes@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:tqYhb.37$ny5.20@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> | Hey Guys ...... STOP SHOUTING............please ....pretty please?? :-)
> | You've both made your own very individual, very valid points...... as
long
> | as the Birdy gets seen by an Avian Vet is what really matters......
RIGHT??
> | and gets any treatment needed.......RIGHT??
> | I have 'spoken' to both of you on many occasions and I respect the BOTH
of
> | you for your advice and concern for Poppet, which has been gratefully
> | received, and I WON't see friends argue!!......RIGHT?? {stomps feet on
> | ground!!}
> | There are enough AS%*OLES on this board at times.....RIGHT??
> | So please please please....... lets not argue amongst ourselves, I say
this
> | even though I am a Newbie to this NG, there's enough other people to
argue
> | with, and all in all it just ain't worth it....RIGHT??
> | Life's too short.....RIGHT??
> | So PLEASE just chill and quit the arguing......please :-)
> | Your friend
> | Ian
> |
> | PS. Jeez.... I never knew I was so philosophical!! :-)) and such a
calming
> | influence too..... hint, hint ;-) LOL
> |
> |
> | "Mamabird" <spam@goaway.com> wrote in message
> | news:mlXhb.6644$av5.4536@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> | > "Digital_Cowboy" <nobody@nobody.com> wrote in message
> | > news:bzWhb.71252$lZ6.11120443@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> | > > "Mamabird,"
> | > >
> | > > A very good example of how you could be wrong and how/why one
should
> | > apply
> | > > Occam's Razor first is this:
> | > >
> | > > I have spent 11 years in the US Army as a Combat Medic, and as
such
> | I
> | > know
> | > > that two or more diseases/illness' can have the same symptoms. Or
that
> | > certain
> | > > meds can also have side effects that mirror the symptoms of a
> | > disease/illness.
> | >
> | > Okay, cowboy, this is getting old and this will be my FINAL response
on
> | > this subject.
> | >
> | > I never spent time in the Army as a combat medic and *I* also know
> | > everything you say in this paragraph is true.
> | > So what?
> | > (BTW - I worked as a Vet's assistant for 4 years.)
> | >
> | > > Case in point, I have a family history of Adult Onset Diabetes.
And
> | > I also
> | > > have ADHD and I am on Amitriptyline HCL to help me to sleep at
night.
> | > Now then
> | > > one of the side effects of Amitriptyline HCL is dry mouth, and
likewise
> | > one of
> | > > the symptoms of Diabetes is dry mouth. Now then MB to use your
logic
> | > because I
> | > > have dry mouth, and those with Diabetes also have had dry mouth, I
MUST
> | > have
> | > > Diabetes. . .
> | >
> | > DAMMIT!!!! When did I say the bird in question MUST have Giardia or
any
> | > other disease? Answer: I NEVER SAID THAT! I said it was a
*possibility*
> | and
> | > should be checked out by an avain vet. Period.
> | >
> | > > But by every six months or so of ceasing to take my
Amitriptyline
> | HCL
> | > until
> | > > it's worked it's way out of my system, and the dry mouth likewise
> | > disappears. I
> | > > can say that by using Occam's Razor that I can deduce that the
reason
> | for
> | > my dry
> | > > mouth is the med(s) that I am on, and NOT because I have developed
> | > Diabetes.
> | >
> | > I've taken amitriptyline for 25 years for clinical depression. I KNOW
the
> | > side effects... including dry mouth.
> | > So, give it a rest, cowboy. Stop putting words in my (dry) mouth and
> | > talking to me like I'm too dumb to "get it." I'm not.
> | > I still maintain the bird that is screaming and pulling out feathers
> | should
> | > be seen by a vet IN CASE AN ILLNESS IS THE CAUSE. Nothing you say will
> | > change my mind.
> | > <SIGH>
> | >
> | > > "Mamabird" <spam@goaway.com> wrote in message
> | > > news:0GIhb.5508$av5.185@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> | > > | WHAT?! Excuse me, but it sure as hell sounds like you're
belittling
> | me,
> | > > | comparing me to a 'recovering alcoholic' just because I
recommended
> | > this
> | > > | person take their bird to a vet.
> | > > | You know, cowboy, I was just beginning to like you. Too bad you
blew
> | it
> | > by
> | > > | insulting me for no reason whatsoever. And yeah, I'm sure you
don't
> | > care.
> | > > | Just for the record, I don't care what you think of me either.
> | > > |
> | > > | Giardia is a very REAL possibility with the symptoms this bird is
> | > showing.
> | > > | Yes, the screaming IS because it is painful when the feathers are
> | > pulled.
> | > > | The bird is frantic because of the severe itching caused from the
> | > parasite
> | > > | infection, so it resorts to pulling out feathers as a desperate
> | attempt
> | > to
> | > > | stop the unbearable itching. It becomes a vicious cycle.
> | > > |
> | > > | You're right, the feather pulling/screaming COULD be caused by
> | > something
> | > > | else, but the FIRST thing a bird owner should do is take the bird
to a
> | > vet
> | > > | to rule out an illness, and go from there. Do you know Giardia can
> | KILL
> | > a
> | > > | bird?
> | > > | I know this from firsthand experience. How much experience do YOU
have
> | > with
> | > > | sick birds, cowboy? How many of YOUR birds have had Giardia? How
much
> | > have
> | > > | you researched this dreadful disease?
> | > > | I would be remiss in my observations and my responsibility to the
OP
> | if
> | > I
> | > > | neglected to point out that this poor bird is showing symptoms of
a
> | > > | dangerous illness. Even if it's not Giardia it could very well be
a
> | > number
> | > > | of other illnesses.
> | > > |
> | > > | If I understand you correctly, you would advise giving the bird a
few
> | > toys
> | > > | first, or moving the cage, thereby wasting precious time if the
bird
> | IS
> | > > | sick? Tell me, how long exactly would you let the bird suffer
while
> | > you're
> | > > | experimenting with environmental changes? It's totally
irresponsible
> | > for
> | > > | anyone to tell someone to put off taking their bird, if it's
showing
> | > > | symptoms of an illness, to a vet for a proper diagnosis. I
wouldn't
> | > want
> | > > | someone's dead bird on MY conscience! But apparently it wouldn't
> | bother
> | > > | you....
> | > > |
> | >
> |
> |
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGP 8.0
>
> iQA/AwUBP4ih2x/i52nbE9vTEQKrDwCfX8+RmHKD1nu5cVn8eB4h+iIvQ/sAn0c9
> 0FDniboAME0HgGaVuLZkuXcE
> =XTkT
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
