| Feeder Mice - CLICK HERE for the Pet Manual Forum Home Page |
| Benjamin F. Brown |
Okay, I'm going to say straight out that CJ and so and so and whomever
doesn't approve of giving their ferrets live food, please stay out of this
one. I'm not looking for a flame war.
Anyway, I'm getting a third ferret soon. Both Lily and Loki when I got them,
had already been given the occasional bit of live food -- so I know that
they knew what to do.
The new fella will probably not have been, and I just want to ask if there'd
be any trouble getting him to actually attack, kill, and eat?
If they've never seen live food before, would they know what to do, and how
to do it? Or would it be an aquired skill from the other ferrets?
It's an odd question, I realize -- but I want the best for mine.
This is directed specifically, at molly and steve.
I'm assuming it's instinct, but, it doesn't hurt to ask.
-B
(Pet of Loki, and of Lilith)
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| oldmolly |
"Benjamin F. Brown" <megatron@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:HBFTa.15833$jL2.1374892@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> Okay, I'm going to say straight out that CJ and so and so and whomever
> doesn't approve of giving their ferrets live food, please stay out of this
> one. I'm not looking for a flame war.
>
> Anyway, I'm getting a third ferret soon. Both Lily and Loki when I got
them,
> had already been given the occasional bit of live food -- so I know that
> they knew what to do.
>
> The new fella will probably not have been, and I just want to ask if
there'd
> be any trouble getting him to actually attack, kill, and eat?
>
> If they've never seen live food before, would they know what to do, and
how
> to do it? Or would it be an aquired skill from the other ferrets?
>
> It's an odd question, I realize -- but I want the best for mine.
>
> This is directed specifically, at molly and steve.
>
> I'm assuming it's instinct, but, it doesn't hurt to ask.
>
Mine have always acted on instinct.My first ferret 'William' was always a
pet. Yet he has no problem hunting rats.
That said, I am too squeamish to feed live prey and prefer to provide dead
day old chicks, mice, rat pups,guinea pigs and rabbits which I buy from a
company which supplies this sort of thing for raptors, snakes etc.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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| Tim |
> If they've never seen live food before, would they know what to do, and
how
> to do it? Or would it be an aquired skill from the other ferrets?
Hmm, okay I see what you mean.
The prob with giving a ferret live food is that if they are not used to it,
in my experience (Not that I ever give live food, unless you class hunting
as such) the ferret is likely to play with it, causing it some distress
before it finally dies. Even when the ferret does get used to it I think you
may find that except for a clean kill, the ferret, just out of a sense of
fun, may play with it anyway.
Mine and Steve's ferrets are working guys and gals. They dont mess around
when they come up against something. They eventually learn, like all
creatures what is the best way of despatching their prey and in general do
it this way. This is instinct. They want to kill something as quickly as
possible as if they do not get it right first time there is a chance they
could get injured and that means that they are likely to starve (in the
wild).
I am not trying to say it is wrong or anything, different rules different
countries etc etc, but you will find that a ferret will eat a dead mouse
just as readily as a live one you know.
I breed mice for feeders, not live as that is illegal here, but I gas them.
I much prefer this as it does not take as long or cause as much stress for a
live animal as being 'hunted' with no way of escape. I will let you of
course make up your own mind on this. But seriously, any animal that I have
either caught in the process of hunting or found freshly killed by a car,
put in with my ferrets is a pile of fur (or feather) and bones in a matter
of hours.
Good luck, and I hope this helps.
Over to you Steve if you have any opinions!
Tim
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| Princebilly1 |
Yes i`m with both of you. The ferret kit will learn firstly by instinct and
hopefully off its mum to hunt.
Please remember ours are ferrets bred for generation after generation for
nothing but hunting.
I suggest it would be very hard for our ferrets to turn into line pulling
ferrets which are still used now and again by statutory undertakers,(gas,
electric, phone companies) as they would soon get bored if the chase was never
on.
I would go out on a limb to suggest most ferrets will kill prey if given the
choice of starving or eating so maybe you can adopt this option if your brave
enough.
Do not feed the ferret anything other than the prey you want it to eat and make
sure that you feed it with a partner ferret who is already killing. The warm
smell of blood and meat opened by the partner will soon have it eating but the
important thing is do not feed it anything else for at least two days after
putting your chosen food in, if you are serious about getting it on the same
food as the others. try and be strong and do not let it have its own way and a
bag of kibble.
Dont give in too soon but it must be very practical and cost effective for the
new addtion to eat what the others are eating.
I dont feed mine live food and never have unless they have caught it themselves
whilst hunting and which is rare anyway if you have the right ferret.
Tim feed his mice and im cool with that but i have a young catholic daughter
who has just about got her six year old head around me giving them fresh killed
rabbits and birds as they are all gods creatures.:O)
I fully respect any foods a ferret owner thinks is best for their own animal
but i am absolutely convinced that fresh meat and fur and feather are the main
reason ours are not suffering from the diseases yours sometimes get.
Tim
have your working ferrets ever suffered from adrenal or any other of these
illnesses or disease mentioned apart from the odd genetic deformity any animal,
mammal, fish or bird suffer from time to time.
I luckily have not in 15 years of ferret husbandry and cross my fingers will
never see it in any of my stock or friends stock.
regards
Steve
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| Benjamin F. Brown |
Thanks Guys, It's Appreciated.
I'm not squamish at all, really. I give my ferrets kibble, nominally. This
is the main staple of their diet. However, I regularlaly give them live, or
fresh dead (I tend to prefer live, as I know it hasn't been treated or the
like, or vitamined or garnished or whatever) as the equivelant of a ferret
multivitamin, I suppose you'd say.
It's the best of both worlds, in my mind.
Anyway, I'll follow Steve's suggestion. Let him get hungry, but take his que
from the others as to what to do. If he doesn't take to it immediatly, so be
it. I won't let him starve or anything. :D
Thanks, Folks.
I appreciate the discretion too, of everyone else at staying out of it if
you haven't anything constructive to say.
It's a hot topic, I know.
-Ben
(Pet of Lilith, Loki, and soon, Horus)
"Princebilly1" <princebilly1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030724165952.07099.00000362@mb-m12.aol.com...
> Yes i`m with both of you. The ferret kit will learn firstly by instinct
and
> hopefully off its mum to hunt.
>
> Please remember ours are ferrets bred for generation after generation for
> nothing but hunting.
>
> I suggest it would be very hard for our ferrets to turn into line pulling
> ferrets which are still used now and again by statutory undertakers,(gas,
> electric, phone companies) as they would soon get bored if the chase was
never
> on.
>
> I would go out on a limb to suggest most ferrets will kill prey if given
the
> choice of starving or eating so maybe you can adopt this option if your
brave
> enough.
>
> Do not feed the ferret anything other than the prey you want it to eat and
make
> sure that you feed it with a partner ferret who is already killing. The
warm
> smell of blood and meat opened by the partner will soon have it eating but
the
> important thing is do not feed it anything else for at least two days
after
> putting your chosen food in, if you are serious about getting it on the
same
> food as the others. try and be strong and do not let it have its own way
and a
> bag of kibble.
>
> Dont give in too soon but it must be very practical and cost effective for
the
> new addtion to eat what the others are eating.
>
> I dont feed mine live food and never have unless they have caught it
themselves
> whilst hunting and which is rare anyway if you have the right ferret.
>
> Tim feed his mice and im cool with that but i have a young catholic
daughter
> who has just about got her six year old head around me giving them fresh
killed
> rabbits and birds as they are all gods creatures.:O)
>
> I fully respect any foods a ferret owner thinks is best for their own
animal
> but i am absolutely convinced that fresh meat and fur and feather are the
main
> reason ours are not suffering from the diseases yours sometimes get.
>
> Tim
>
> have your working ferrets ever suffered from adrenal or any other of these
> illnesses or disease mentioned apart from the odd genetic deformity any
animal,
> mammal, fish or bird suffer from time to time.
>
> I luckily have not in 15 years of ferret husbandry and cross my fingers
will
> never see it in any of my stock or friends stock.
>
> regards
>
> Steve
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| KG |
Some out locals (OH) have ferrets that will eat mice. They weren't
taught to hunt. They live in houses where there are mice who are
attracted to the ferret chow.
If you start your ferret kits on a variety of food, they will eat
meat. Most of mine don't but my older ones do. I spent more time on
them as kits getting them to eat a variety of food. The rest came in
as adult rescues and we never tried to get them to eat meat. Either
they did or they didn't.
We started giving my mink baby rats. The first time our two he didn't
know what he was doing. He can dispatch them quickly. He was never
live food until two weeks ago when there was an excess of baby rats
for the roommate's snake.
KG
"Benjamin F. Brown" <megatron@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<HBFTa.15833$jL2.1374892@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>...
> Okay, I'm going to say straight out that CJ and so and so and whomever
> doesn't approve of giving their ferrets live food, please stay out of this
> one. I'm not looking for a flame war.
>
> Anyway, I'm getting a third ferret soon. Both Lily and Loki when I got them,
> had already been given the occasional bit of live food -- so I know that
> they knew what to do.
>
> The new fella will probably not have been, and I just want to ask if there'd
> be any trouble getting him to actually attack, kill, and eat?
>
> If they've never seen live food before, would they know what to do, and how
> to do it? Or would it be an aquired skill from the other ferrets?
>
> It's an odd question, I realize -- but I want the best for mine.
>
> This is directed specifically, at molly and steve.
>
> I'm assuming it's instinct, but, it doesn't hurt to ask.
>
> -B
> (Pet of Loki, and of Lilith)
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| Princebilly1 |
Ben
Just one ferret partner to eat with or the new one will be confused by the
pecking order or fights that errupt.
Do not let him go hungry for more than 24
(legal requirement) hours but let him have plenty of water. He will eat
steve
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| Tim |
"Princebilly1" <princebilly1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030724165952.07099.00000362@mb-m12.aol.com...
> Yes i`m with both of you. The ferret kit will learn firstly by instinct
and
> hopefully off its mum to hunt.
>
>
> have your working ferrets ever suffered from adrenal or any other of these
> illnesses or disease mentioned apart from the odd genetic deformity any
animal,
> mammal, fish or bird suffer from time to time.
>
> I luckily have not in 15 years of ferret husbandry and cross my fingers
will
> never see it in any of my stock or friends stock.
Oh yeah, I have indeed.
I lost three about two years ago to some mystery illness. Sarted off going
thin, trouble is that the first time it happened was during summer when
ferrets are naturally thin anyway. He did seem a little too thin so up teh
vets, antibiotics and wormer. No joy at all. Except, all of a sudden he
became very perky indeed, and I thought that the worry was over.
Within 24 hours he was dead, blindness, rear end paralysis and fitting.
Post Mortem revealed a massive kidney, liver and heart failure.
The next two went over the next 6 months, suffering exactly the same
symptoms. Post mortems again revealed the same, and the vets, frankly are at
a loss as to what happened to them.
They were however two brothers and their mother. I find it hard to believe
any type of genetic problems as the rest of the kits (the kits are now 8
years old) have all done extremely well and suffered no problems. Another
ferret, unrelated went thin, and I was expecting him to go the same way, but
18 months later he is still with me although his weight is a constant worry
for me.
The three dead ferrets lived together, the other I still have lives
seperatly with another ferret which has suffered no problems.
They are very diverse as far as diet, type and as to whether they have
hunted or not, so I have absolutely nothing to go on there, except obviously
for a disease or virus of some kind.
I know that was a long one Steve, but you did ask! lol
regards,
Tim
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| Princebilly1 |
sorry to hear that Tim
Maybe a disease or virus as you say unless it sounds like any of the american
cousins symtoms
steve
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| swamp |
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:20:00 +0000 (UTC), "Tim" <beren@btinternet.com>
wrote:
>
>"Princebilly1" <princebilly1@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20030724165952.07099.00000362@mb-m12.aol.com...
>> Yes i`m with both of you. The ferret kit will learn firstly by instinct
>and
>> hopefully off its mum to hunt.
>>
>
>
>>
>> have your working ferrets ever suffered from adrenal or any other of these
>> illnesses or disease mentioned apart from the odd genetic deformity any
>animal,
>> mammal, fish or bird suffer from time to time.
>>
>> I luckily have not in 15 years of ferret husbandry and cross my fingers
>will
>> never see it in any of my stock or friends stock.
>
>
>Oh yeah, I have indeed.
>
>I lost three about two years ago to some mystery illness. Sarted off going
>thin, trouble is that the first time it happened was during summer when
>ferrets are naturally thin anyway. He did seem a little too thin so up teh
>vets, antibiotics and wormer. No joy at all. Except, all of a sudden he
>became very perky indeed, and I thought that the worry was over.
>Within 24 hours he was dead, blindness, rear end paralysis and fitting.
>Post Mortem revealed a massive kidney, liver and heart failure.
>The next two went over the next 6 months, suffering exactly the same
>symptoms. Post mortems again revealed the same, and the vets, frankly are at
>a loss as to what happened to them.
>They were however two brothers and their mother. I find it hard to believe
>any type of genetic problems as the rest of the kits (the kits are now 8
>years old) have all done extremely well and suffered no problems. Another
>ferret, unrelated went thin, and I was expecting him to go the same way, but
>18 months later he is still with me although his weight is a constant worry
>for me.
>The three dead ferrets lived together, the other I still have lives
>seperatly with another ferret which has suffered no problems.
>They are very diverse as far as diet, type and as to whether they have
>hunted or not, so I have absolutely nothing to go on there, except obviously
>for a disease or virus of some kind.
>
>I know that was a long one Steve, but you did ask! lol
I'm glad he did, and it's "reassuring" to know things you describe
happen in the UK also. Otherwise I'd have to say we shouldn't keep
ferrets in the US, I'd also guess you were hit by a virus, but hind
end paresis, and abnormal liver and kidney blood values are
non-indicative. iow, it happens w/ most thingss they get.
>Tim
You English types are awfully stoic,
(or are we American types overly sentimental?)
swamp
"Who, me officer? What's a ferut? These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
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| KG |
Someone has suggested putting the ferret an the mouse in your tub. If
the ferret doesn't dispatch the mouse quickly, it will cut down on
cleaning the mess. Shut the door to the bathroom. You don't want the
ferret carrying the mouse off and hiding. Onyx like teeny beeny
babies and carries them all over his cage. The is the same behavior
he has when he's eating rats and carries one all over his cage.
KG
"Benjamin F. Brown" <megatron@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<Xb_Ta.18347$jL2.1437361@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>...
> Thanks Guys, It's Appreciated.
>
> I'm not squamish at all, really. I give my ferrets kibble, nominally. This
> is the main staple of their diet. However, I regularlaly give them live, or
> fresh dead (I tend to prefer live, as I know it hasn't been treated or the
> like, or vitamined or garnished or whatever) as the equivelant of a ferret
> multivitamin, I suppose you'd say.
>
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| Jim Higgins |
On 26 Jul 2003 10:59:44 -0700, in
<9ad00fda.0307260959.5e170b4@posting.google.com>,
katgall@voyager.net (KG) wrote:
>Someone has suggested putting the ferret an the mouse in your tub. If
>the ferret doesn't dispatch the mouse quickly, it will cut down on
>cleaning the mess. Shut the door to the bathroom. You don't want the
>ferret carrying the mouse off and hiding. Onyx like teeny beeny
>babies and carries them all over his cage. The is the same behavior
>he has when he's eating rats and carries one all over his cage.
I'm gonna guess that someone didn't test the advice, or was
lucky. My brother used to have snakes and tried feeding them in
that manner. Most mice dashrd around in a total frenzy,
eventually getting a foothold on the snake and leaping out of the
tub. I'd advise anyone who tries this approach to have a
mouse-proof bathroom.
--
Jim Higgins
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| Bikerferret |
This was less than successful for me too :) Ninja had a (defrosted) chick
in the bath, "killed" it, then brought it to me as a present from under the
shut bathroom door. Vile. No details, but I ended up cleaning carpets for
a while. No more chicks for them, they thought it was a toy (hissing at
each other in the cage that they took their toy to).
But I'm sure it can work for others with ferrets brought up on fresh meat,
who have ferret-proof bathroom doors :)
--
Bikerferret
email: liege AT bikerferret DOT com
A website in progress: www.bikerferret.com
"Jim Higgins" <UseAddressBelow@pandora.orbl.org> wrote in message
news:6oo5ivk0mt5lvukl8hk60es0lgqprg1lgn@4ax.com...
> On 26 Jul 2003 10:59:44 -0700, in
> <9ad00fda.0307260959.5e170b4@posting.google.com>,
> katgall@voyager.net (KG) wrote:
>
> >Someone has suggested putting the ferret an the mouse in your tub. If
> >the ferret doesn't dispatch the mouse quickly, it will cut down on
> >cleaning the mess. Shut the door to the bathroom. You don't want the
> >ferret carrying the mouse off and hiding. Onyx like teeny beeny
> >babies and carries them all over his cage. The is the same behavior
> >he has when he's eating rats and carries one all over his cage.
>
> I'm gonna guess that someone didn't test the advice, or was
> lucky. My brother used to have snakes and tried feeding them in
> that manner. Most mice dashrd around in a total frenzy,
> eventually getting a foothold on the snake and leaping out of the
> tub. I'd advise anyone who tries this approach to have a
> mouse-proof bathroom.
>
> --
> Jim Higgins
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| Tim |
>
> I'm glad he did, and it's "reassuring" to know things you describe
> happen in the UK also. Otherwise I'd have to say we shouldn't keep
> ferrets in the US, I'd also guess you were hit by a virus, but hind
> end paresis, and abnormal liver and kidney blood values are
> non-indicative. iow, it happens w/ most thingss they get.
>
> >Tim
>
> You English types are awfully stoic,
>
> (or are we American types overly sentimental?)
Wow, that brought a smile to my face! lol
No, I dont think so. I think it is just a matter of how our two cultures
were brought up with regards to our ferrets.
I don't know if they were taken to the USA in order to hunt originally (I am
presuming so...anyone help with that?), but if they were, then the ferret
has changed from a working animal to a pet. I do not think that is a bad
thing though. Ferret evoluotion, they know when they are onto a good thing I
think!
But alot of us Brits still use them for working and therefore we still have
that 'working animal' type attitude about ferrets. (Unless one was ill and
needed lots of TLC, I would not dream of having one inside, for example).
Not all of us. My first, and she will always be my favourite though she died
a couple of years ago, I used to take to work on nights with me and have the
run of the place while I was supposedly working.
But at the end of the day, my ferrets are there to give me pleasure, whether
working or not, but ultimately, they are there to give me a good winters
sport. And, perhaps most importantly, to give me a good excuse to get away
from the wife for a whole morning. True happiness is indeed a ferret!
Take care,
Tim :o)
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| Tim |
"Bikerferret" <liege@bikerferret.com> wrote in message
news:bfuqpm$j25h0$1@ID-105618.news.uni-berlin.de...
> This was less than successful for me too :) Ninja had a (defrosted) chick
> in the bath, "killed" it, then brought it to me as a present from under
the
> shut bathroom door. Vile. No details, but I ended up cleaning carpets
for
> a while. No more chicks for them, they thought it was a toy (hissing at
> each other in the cage that they took their toy to).
>
> But I'm sure it can work for others with ferrets brought up on fresh meat,
> who have ferret-proof bathroom doors :)
My guys and gals also hiss and spit when feeding chicks. They always want
the chick that the 'other one' has got. Even though there are 9 more in
there for them to choose from. Never managed to work this out. Reason being
that if I put a whole gutted rabbit in the run, they all sit down to enjoy
as if they are having a family meal, no quarreling at all.... Weird.
Regards,
Tim
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| Tim |
> Maybe a disease or virus as you say unless it sounds like any of the
american
> cousins symtoms
>
> steve
I did access alot of US sites to find a clue, but as swamp says below the
symptoms are pretty much the same for ferrets with many diseases.
As if to prove a point, My youngest (2) died after writing the last email.
Found her laying, concious, on the floor in her run. The back end was
paralysed, so i knew there was no hope. However straight to the vets and she
had had a fit, for no apparent reason and suffered quite significant brain
damage. No choice but to put her to sleep. A real shame, she was a nice
small girl with a good character and was going to start working her under
the hawk this year as she was an albino.
These things happen every now and again though.
Regards,
Tim
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| swamp |
On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 18:50:12 +0000 (UTC), "Tim" <beren@btinternet.com>
wrote:
>I don't know if they were taken to the USA in order to hunt originally (I am
>presuming so...anyone help with that?), but if they were, then the ferret
>has changed from a working animal to a pet. I do not think that is a bad
>thing though. Ferret evoluotion, they know when they are onto a good thing I
>think!
I'm sure the Puritans brought some working ferrets w/ them. Others
were probably on board ship for rat control, a policy of both the
British Navy and merchant marine. Unfortunately for the ferreters, one
by one the states outlawed hunting w/ ferrets. California banned it
1937, I believe. For the next 50 years or so they were bred for fur
and use in medical research. In the 1950s, only 1 of 10 ferrets in the
US was a pet. Nowadays it's the other way around.
I've been told the hunting isn't as good or isn't the same over here
anyway. Our wild rabbits will use the shelter of an existing burrow or
a hole in a tree trunk, but don't construct elaborate warrens like
yours do. They're also *lightning* fast. Our golden retriever gave a
jack rabbit a short chase once, short because it was a total mismatch.
The rabbit calmly let her get w/in 10 yards and disappeared. In 8-10
zig-zag bounds, each one covering at least 30' and the whole series
taking about 5 seconds, left the poor dog so confused and so far
behind she abandoned the chase.
swamp
"Who, me officer? What's a ferut? These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
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| marika |
"Tim" <beren@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:<bg3r93$5vj$1@titan.btinternet.com>...>
>
> Wow, that brought a smile to my face! lol
>
> No, I dont think so. I think it is just a matter of how our two cultures
> were brought up with regards to our ferrets.
> I don't know if they were taken to the USA in order to hunt originally (I am
> presuming so...anyone help with that?), but if they were, then the ferret
> has changed from a working animal to a pet. I do not think that is a bad
> thing though. Ferret evoluotion, they know when they are onto a good thing I
> think!
Wow, that's a clever premise for a show. you could never do
that today. should been a n hour long.
mk5000
"The Okatagi Gohonzon all of you receive is a Gohonzon bestowed
upon a new believer because that person experiences an initial
awakening.
He or she makes an initial vow and determination to carryout faith and
practice, which is trusted by Nichiren Shoshu. "--
Reverend Shoshin Kawabe
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| Princebilly1 |
>Our golden retriever gave a
jack rabbit a short chase once<
Me thinks your jack rabbit is actually a hare, is this correct.
If so, they will give any dog a run for their money unless they are long dogs
of course (whippet, greyhound, and the like)
Steve
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| swamp |
On 08 Aug 2003 01:56:30 GMT, princebilly1@aol.com (Princebilly1)
wrote:
>>Our golden retriever gave a jack rabbit a short chase once
>
>Me thinks your jack rabbit is actually a hare, is this correct.
Yes, I believe so, otherwise known as a lagomorph. I don't understand
the difference, but biologists make the distinction.
>If so, they will give any dog a run for their money unless they are long dogs
>of course (whippet, greyhound, and the like)
I don't think a caffeinated cheetah would've caught that jack rabbit.
It went from 0 to 60 in 2 seconds and looked like it was just warming
up. If I anthropomorphized I'd swear it laughed at us.
>Steve
swamp
"Who, me officer? What's a ferut? These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
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