| UK adrenal question - CLICK HERE for the Pet Manual Forum Home Page |
| Bikerferret |
Right, Mischief went to the vet the other day with an enlarged vulva,
there's 3 options: infection, crap spay or adrenal. Dealing with it as
infection at the moment, but if that fails then that leaves the other two
options.
Thing is, my vet rang today to tell me that there's nowhere in the UK to
test for adrenal, it has to go to the US for the Tennessee Panel. Do we
really not have our own test? Has anyone else had this?
--
Bikerferret
email: liege AT bikerferret DOT com
A website in progress: www.bikerferret.com
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| Jason and Holly Harper |
I'm not sure that the test is really worth the money. From what I
understand it's not always correct anyway. I guess it's all a matter of
opinion. And as far as I know I've never heard of a test in the UK. :(
We'll pray it's an infection, Biker.
Holly
"Bikerferret" <liege@bikerferret.com> wrote in message
news:bfh6lt$evr48$1@ID-105618.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Right, Mischief went to the vet the other day with an enlarged vulva,
> there's 3 options: infection, crap spay or adrenal. Dealing with it as
> infection at the moment, but if that fails then that leaves the other two
> options.
>
> Thing is, my vet rang today to tell me that there's nowhere in the UK to
> test for adrenal, it has to go to the US for the Tennessee Panel. Do we
> really not have our own test? Has anyone else had this?
>
> --
> Bikerferret
>
> email: liege AT bikerferret DOT com
> A website in progress: www.bikerferret.com
>
>
>
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| Isotope |
"Bikerferret" <liege@bikerferret.com> wrote in message
news:bfh6lt$evr48$1@ID-105618.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Right, Mischief went to the vet the other day with an enlarged vulva,
> there's 3 options: infection, crap spay or adrenal. Dealing with it as
> infection at the moment, but if that fails then that leaves the other two
> options.
>
> Thing is, my vet rang today to tell me that there's nowhere in the UK to
> test for adrenal, it has to go to the US for the Tennessee Panel. Do we
> really not have our own test? Has anyone else had this?
Sorry... no help really, but (as I am sure you have done too) I did do a uk
web-search on all things adrenal and "test" related and drew a shocking
blank. The best I could find were links to U.S. web pages. Sigh. I think
it'd be useful to all us UK ferret owners if you *do* find any news on this,
if you could post it here...? Best of luck with Mishcief... let's hope it's
one of the other two options.
Isotope
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| Melissa |
In article <bfh6lt$evr48$1@ID-105618.news.uni-berlin.de>,
"Bikerferret" <liege@bikerferret.com> wrote:
> Right, Mischief went to the vet the other day with an enlarged vulva,
> there's 3 options: infection, crap spay or adrenal. Dealing with it as
> infection at the moment, but if that fails then that leaves the other two
> options.
>
> Thing is, my vet rang today to tell me that there's nowhere in the UK to
> test for adrenal, it has to go to the US for the Tennessee Panel. Do we
> really not have our own test? Has anyone else had this?
The test, as far as I know, is really irrelevant for the most part. If
it's not an infection then there's not much else it can be besides a
botched spay or adrenal. Both require surgery. Both would probably (I
think?) yeild similar results on the Tenessee panel anyway (that's the
name of the test). I think treating for an infection first is the right
thing to do if the ferret is otherwise ok and can wait that long. But if
that doesn't work, save your money on tests that won't change the next
step and "go in."
Just my opinion. And once again, "I'm not a vet."
-Melissa
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| swamp |
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:08:15 +0100, "Bikerferret"
<liege@bikerferret.com> wrote:
>Right, Mischief went to the vet the other day with an enlarged vulva,
>there's 3 options: infection, crap spay or adrenal. Dealing with it as
>infection at the moment, but if that fails then that leaves the other two
>options.
>
>Thing is, my vet rang today to tell me that there's nowhere in the UK to
>test for adrenal, it has to go to the US for the Tennessee Panel. Do we
>really not have our own test? Has anyone else had this?
I'm going to disagree w/ Melissa (unusual) on this one. The UTenn
panel is the only adrenal test any of us have, and can conclusively
indicate which surgery is the best option. The hormones involved in a
botched spay are different than those of adrenal hyperplasia. As you
note, a swollen vulva is only the presentation. You "hope" it's an
infection, but if the underlying cause is hormonal the UTenn panel
tells the vet where to begin looking.
imo,
swamp
"Who, me officer? What's a ferut? These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
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| Bikerferret |
Thanks all, its reassuring to have some input, even if it is a little
worrying at the same time.
Going back to the vet Friday evening to see what to do next, especially
since there seems to be no real reduction of swelling. You'd best all hang
about, I'm going to be running things past you all again soon :)
My poor girl, hate putting her through this :(
--
Bikerferret
email: liege AT bikerferret DOT com
A website in progress: www.bikerferret.com
"swamp" <swamp@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:gi0phvco3bdj355qisql68s5cp6a2vs3b5@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:08:15 +0100, "Bikerferret"
> <liege@bikerferret.com> wrote:
>
> >Right, Mischief went to the vet the other day with an enlarged vulva,
> >there's 3 options: infection, crap spay or adrenal. Dealing with it as
> >infection at the moment, but if that fails then that leaves the other two
> >options.
> >
> >Thing is, my vet rang today to tell me that there's nowhere in the UK to
> >test for adrenal, it has to go to the US for the Tennessee Panel. Do we
> >really not have our own test? Has anyone else had this?
>
> I'm going to disagree w/ Melissa (unusual) on this one. The UTenn
> panel is the only adrenal test any of us have, and can conclusively
> indicate which surgery is the best option. The hormones involved in a
> botched spay are different than those of adrenal hyperplasia. As you
> note, a swollen vulva is only the presentation. You "hope" it's an
> infection, but if the underlying cause is hormonal the UTenn panel
> tells the vet where to begin looking.
>
> imo,
>
> swamp
>
> "Who, me officer? What's a ferut? These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
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| Melissa |
In article <gi0phvco3bdj355qisql68s5cp6a2vs3b5@4ax.com>,
swamp <swamp@adelphia.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:08:15 +0100, "Bikerferret"
> <liege@bikerferret.com> wrote:
>
> >Right, Mischief went to the vet the other day with an enlarged vulva,
> >there's 3 options: infection, crap spay or adrenal. Dealing with it as
> >infection at the moment, but if that fails then that leaves the other two
> >options.
> >
> >Thing is, my vet rang today to tell me that there's nowhere in the UK to
> >test for adrenal, it has to go to the US for the Tennessee Panel. Do we
> >really not have our own test? Has anyone else had this?
>
> I'm going to disagree w/ Melissa (unusual) on this one.
You WHAT??!!! <grin>
> The UTenn
> panel is the only adrenal test any of us have, and can conclusively
> indicate which surgery is the best option. The hormones involved in a
> botched spay are different than those of adrenal hyperplasia.
I wasn't sure about that. I thought they might be similar.
> As you
> note, a swollen vulva is only the presentation. You "hope" it's an
> infection, but if the underlying cause is hormonal the UTenn panel
> tells the vet where to begin looking.
I agree it's helpful so they know where to cut first and get straight to
the problem.
I guess I generally skipped the test because whether or not it's most
likely to be adrenal or a botched spay is usually pretty easy to guess,
so for most situations I was faced with, the test seemed unneccesary. If
symptoms start around 3 yrs old or older, it's VERY likely to be adrenal
and not a botched spay (unless it's a late alter). If symptoms occur at
about a year old it's *most* likely due to a botched spay and not
adrenal -though it's not impossible for it to be adrenal.
I think if money's no object there's no harm in getting the test done.
The more you know going into anything the better. However, I live in one
of those areas where the cost of ferret surgery is $1000-ish, so I
always opted to put my extra $200 or so towards that when the likely
culprit was 95+% predictable with or without the test.
-Melissa
PS: Yeah I know... fly eslewhere for surgery ;) I also always liked the
consistency of having one vet from start to finish whenever possible.
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| Kathouze |
>From: "Bikerferret"
>
>My poor girl, hate putting her through this :(
>
Hoping for a bad spay job,since it's not an infection.Give that girl a kiss
from me.
Sandy and the Dook City Gang
Tempus Fuzzit
kathouze pictures
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery...ername=kathouze
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| swamp |
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:00:44 GMT, Melissa <nospam@nospam.com.invalid>
wrote:
>In article <gi0phvco3bdj355qisql68s5cp6a2vs3b5@4ax.com>,
> swamp <swamp@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:08:15 +0100, "Bikerferret"
>> <liege@bikerferret.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Right, Mischief went to the vet the other day with an enlarged vulva,
>> >there's 3 options: infection, crap spay or adrenal. Dealing with it as
>> >infection at the moment, but if that fails then that leaves the other two
>> >options.
>> >
>> >Thing is, my vet rang today to tell me that there's nowhere in the UK to
>> >test for adrenal, it has to go to the US for the Tennessee Panel. Do we
>> >really not have our own test? Has anyone else had this?
>>
>> I'm going to disagree w/ Melissa (unusual) on this one.
>
>You WHAT??!!! <grin>
>
>> The UTenn
>> panel is the only adrenal test any of us have, and can conclusively
>> indicate which surgery is the best option. The hormones involved in a
>> botched spay are different than those of adrenal hyperplasia.
>
>I wasn't sure about that. I thought they might be similar.
Apparently the adrenals have different strata, and depending on where
the hyperplasias are occuring, the ferret will present different
symptoms. If one area is affected, they'll excrete too much cortisol.
In another area it would be estrogen. Jerry Murray, the FHL's resident
ferret endocrinologist, explains it better than I can:
http://miamiferret.org/fhc/murray.htm
Debbie Kemmerer wrote a good article on the same site:
http://miamiferret.org/fhc/tumor_types.htm
>> As you
>> note, a swollen vulva is only the presentation. You "hope" it's an
>> infection, but if the underlying cause is hormonal the UTenn panel
>> tells the vet where to begin looking.
>
>I agree it's helpful so they know where to cut first and get straight to
>the problem.
As I understand things, ovarian remnants only produce estrogen, not
testoterone, cortisol, adrenalin, or any of the other hormones the
adrenals will. The UTenn panel is designed to check the various levels
of all of them
>I guess I generally skipped the test because whether or not it's most
>likely to be adrenal or a botched spay is usually pretty easy to guess,
>so for most situations I was faced with, the test seemed unneccesary. If
>symptoms start around 3 yrs old or older, it's VERY likely to be adrenal
>and not a botched spay (unless it's a late alter). If symptoms occur at
>about a year old it's *most* likely due to a botched spay and not
>adrenal -though it's not impossible for it to be adrenal.
Agreed. If a jill goes three years before presenting a swollen vulva,
you can logically rule out ovarian remnants. But you're thinking like
a typical American ferret owner, probably because you're a typical
American ferret owner. Most of our ferrets are neutered earlier than
UK ferrets.
Hey Biker, Melissa's got a point here. Refresh our memories. How old
is Mischief, and how long ago was she spayed?
>I think if money's no object there's no harm in getting the test done.
>The more you know going into anything the better. However, I live in one
>of those areas where the cost of ferret surgery is $1000-ish, so I
>always opted to put my extra $200 or so towards that when the likely
>culprit was 95+% predictable with or without the test.
Fair enough.
>-Melissa
>PS: Yeah I know... fly eslewhere for surgery ;)
I was going anyway. ;p...
....and you know what, that trip didn't cost much anyway. The whole
deal was $1500. Here, the surgery alone would've cost $1200, so for
$300 my ferret got to see a really good ferret surgeon, and I got to
see DC for a couple days.
>I also always liked the
>consistency of having one vet from start to finish whenever possible.
Me too, but I've yet to find a good local ferret surgeon. Ziggy, one
of the ferrets I sit, just went under the knife for presenting
dysuria, then again for ruptured bladder. Been there. We'll see how it
goes.
swamp
"Who, me officer? What's a ferut? These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
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| Bikerferret |
Thanks Sandy.
--
Bikerferret
email: liege AT bikerferret DOT com
A website in progress: www.bikerferret.com
"Kathouze" <kathouze@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030722165525.00793.00000320@mb-m25.aol.com...
> >From: "Bikerferret"
>
> >
> >My poor girl, hate putting her through this :(
> >
>
> Hoping for a bad spay job,since it's not an infection.Give that girl a
kiss
> from me.
>
>
> Sandy and the Dook City Gang
> Tempus Fuzzit
> kathouze pictures
> http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery...ername=kathouze
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| Bikerferret |
Thanks guys, between you all, you do come up with the goods, don't you?!
I'll give the vet this info, the only reason I chose them is because of the
owner's history with ferrets but we'll see how this goes.
Swamp, Mischief is just a year old and was spayed mid April 2003. So,
botched spay? Vet ass-kicking time?!
--
Bikerferret
email: liege AT bikerferret DOT com
A website in progress: www.bikerferret.com
"swamp" <swamp@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:a1krhvg54gfadocqs70pdihhg8e924e37v@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:00:44 GMT, Melissa <nospam@nospam.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <gi0phvco3bdj355qisql68s5cp6a2vs3b5@4ax.com>,
> > swamp <swamp@adelphia.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:08:15 +0100, "Bikerferret"
> >> <liege@bikerferret.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Right, Mischief went to the vet the other day with an enlarged vulva,
> >> >there's 3 options: infection, crap spay or adrenal. Dealing with it
as
> >> >infection at the moment, but if that fails then that leaves the other
two
> >> >options.
> >> >
> >> >Thing is, my vet rang today to tell me that there's nowhere in the UK
to
> >> >test for adrenal, it has to go to the US for the Tennessee Panel. Do
we
> >> >really not have our own test? Has anyone else had this?
> >>
> >> I'm going to disagree w/ Melissa (unusual) on this one.
> >
> >You WHAT??!!! <grin>
> >
> >> The UTenn
> >> panel is the only adrenal test any of us have, and can conclusively
> >> indicate which surgery is the best option. The hormones involved in a
> >> botched spay are different than those of adrenal hyperplasia.
> >
> >I wasn't sure about that. I thought they might be similar.
>
> Apparently the adrenals have different strata, and depending on where
> the hyperplasias are occuring, the ferret will present different
> symptoms. If one area is affected, they'll excrete too much cortisol.
> In another area it would be estrogen. Jerry Murray, the FHL's resident
> ferret endocrinologist, explains it better than I can:
>
> http://miamiferret.org/fhc/murray.htm
>
> Debbie Kemmerer wrote a good article on the same site:
>
> http://miamiferret.org/fhc/tumor_types.htm
>
> >> As you
> >> note, a swollen vulva is only the presentation. You "hope" it's an
> >> infection, but if the underlying cause is hormonal the UTenn panel
> >> tells the vet where to begin looking.
> >
> >I agree it's helpful so they know where to cut first and get straight to
> >the problem.
>
> As I understand things, ovarian remnants only produce estrogen, not
> testoterone, cortisol, adrenalin, or any of the other hormones the
> adrenals will. The UTenn panel is designed to check the various levels
> of all of them
>
> >I guess I generally skipped the test because whether or not it's most
> >likely to be adrenal or a botched spay is usually pretty easy to guess,
> >so for most situations I was faced with, the test seemed unneccesary. If
> >symptoms start around 3 yrs old or older, it's VERY likely to be adrenal
> >and not a botched spay (unless it's a late alter). If symptoms occur at
> >about a year old it's *most* likely due to a botched spay and not
> >adrenal -though it's not impossible for it to be adrenal.
>
> Agreed. If a jill goes three years before presenting a swollen vulva,
> you can logically rule out ovarian remnants. But you're thinking like
> a typical American ferret owner, probably because you're a typical
> American ferret owner. Most of our ferrets are neutered earlier than
> UK ferrets.
>
> Hey Biker, Melissa's got a point here. Refresh our memories. How old
> is Mischief, and how long ago was she spayed?
>
> >I think if money's no object there's no harm in getting the test done.
> >The more you know going into anything the better. However, I live in one
> >of those areas where the cost of ferret surgery is $1000-ish, so I
> >always opted to put my extra $200 or so towards that when the likely
> >culprit was 95+% predictable with or without the test.
>
> Fair enough.
>
> >-Melissa
> >PS: Yeah I know... fly eslewhere for surgery ;)
>
> I was going anyway. ;p...
>
> ...and you know what, that trip didn't cost much anyway. The whole
> deal was $1500. Here, the surgery alone would've cost $1200, so for
> $300 my ferret got to see a really good ferret surgeon, and I got to
> see DC for a couple days.
>
> >I also always liked the
> >consistency of having one vet from start to finish whenever possible.
>
> Me too, but I've yet to find a good local ferret surgeon. Ziggy, one
> of the ferrets I sit, just went under the knife for presenting
> dysuria, then again for ruptured bladder. Been there. We'll see how it
> goes.
>
> swamp
>
> "Who, me officer? What's a ferut? These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
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| Melissa |
In article <a1krhvg54gfadocqs70pdihhg8e924e37v@4ax.com>,
swamp <swamp@adelphia.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:00:44 GMT, Melissa <nospam@nospam.com.invalid>
> wrote:
<snipped a whole lot>
> >I also always liked the
> >consistency of having one vet from start to finish whenever possible.
>
> Me too, but I've yet to find a good local ferret surgeon. Ziggy, one
> of the ferrets I sit, just went under the knife for presenting
> dysuria, then again for ruptured bladder. Been there. We'll see how it
> goes.
Ugh. That's awful :( Hope things get better.
-Melissa
PS: Thanks for the links to the miamiferret articles.
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| swamp |
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On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:49:50 +0100, "Bikerferret"
<liege@bikerferret.com> wrote:
>Thanks guys, between you all, you do come up with the goods, don't you?!
>I'll give the vet this info, the only reason I chose them is because of the
>owner's history with ferrets but we'll see how this goes.
I'd be concerned as a UK owner because of the scarcity of adrenal
cases over there. You can't expect a vet to be experienced in treating
a disease s/he never sees. Good news bad news, I guess.
>Swamp, Mischief is just a year old and was spayed mid April 2003.
So I assume she was spayed around first heat. Was her vulva swollen at
the time? If so, did it return to normal post spay? Or, did you spay
her before heat?
>So, botched spay? Vet ass-kicking time?!
Probably both, although adrenal disease has been known to strike the
odd youngster. In order of likelihood I'd say ovarian remnant,
ineffective antibiotic or antibiotic resistant strain of bacteria,
then adrenals. Fortunately, w/ jills you've got a little time if it
*does* turn out to be adrenal.
Keep us posted,
swamp
"Who, me officer? What's a ferut? These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
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| swamp |
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:14:31 GMT, Melissa <nospam@nospam.com.invalid>
wrote:
>In article <a1krhvg54gfadocqs70pdihhg8e924e37v@4ax.com>,
> swamp <swamp@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 20:00:44 GMT, Melissa <nospam@nospam.com.invalid>
>> wrote:
>
><snipped a whole lot>
>
>> >I also always liked the
>> >consistency of having one vet from start to finish whenever possible.
>>
>> Me too, but I've yet to find a good local ferret surgeon. Ziggy, one
>> of the ferrets I sit, just went under the knife for presenting
>> dysuria, then again for ruptured bladder. Been there. We'll see how it
>> goes.
>
>Ugh. That's awful :( Hope things get better.
Latest report is he's rooting thru the blankets and clawing at the
cage door post op. I take that as a good sign. There are few things
more depressing than seeing a formerly active ferret down. When
healthy, Zig's an "animal," even at 5 y/o.
>-Melissa
>PS: Thanks for the links to the miamiferret articles.
You're welcome, and some thanks are due Mike Janke, Jerry Murray, and
Debbie Kemmerer as well. They did all the work. I just know about it.
swamp
"Who, me officer? What's a ferut? These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
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| Bikerferret |
> -Melissa
> PS: One more thought... Was she *in* heat at the time of the spay? I
> know sometimes it takes a while for the hormones to normalize even after
> a successful spay. If she seemed ok for a couple of months following the
> surgery and these symptoms are very recent, then I'd be more likely to
> think 'botched spay." If she was in heat at the time, hormone levels may
> not have normalized yet. I really know nothing about how long that's
> supposed to take or how it works. Just that it's not always
> instantaneous. But I don't think she should go *into* heat after a spay
> if she wasn't in heat before. -but, again, I'm not a vet.
Printed and ready for vet, thanks Melissa :)
She had just gone into heat, maybe a week, then was spayed. She went down
within a couple of weeks maybe? That was 3 months ago now. But then, who
am I to question a female's hormone level ;)
It's useful though, I'll point that out to the vet. I'm stumped because
this hasn't happened to me before, and I've gone through 6 ferret spays now
(although not personaly, obviously).
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| Bikerferret |
Swamp wrote:
> I'd be concerned as a UK owner because of the scarcity of adrenal
> cases over there. You can't expect a vet to be experienced in treating
> a disease s/he never sees. Good news bad news, I guess.
Not experienced, no, but a little more knowledge would have been reassuring
I guess. I wonder exactly how scarce it is over here? You certainly don't
hear of the levels of tumours you have over there, but maybe that's through
ignorance in spotting it. I don't know, I'm a little lost with it all right
now, having heard so much about it and now there's a small possibility it
may be happening to mine :(
> So I assume she was spayed around first heat. Was her vulva swollen at
> the time? If so, did it return to normal post spay? Or, did you spay
> her before heat?
Correct, I always wait until the first heat then they go straight in. She
was swollen, but it took a couple of weeks (I think) till she went down
afterwards. I know its roughly that, because she was indoors for a
fortnight terrorising the kittens :)
> Probably both, although adrenal disease has been known to strike the
> odd youngster. In order of likelihood I'd say ovarian remnant,
> ineffective antibiotic or antibiotic resistant strain of bacteria,
> then adrenals. Fortunately, w/ jills you've got a little time if it
> *does* turn out to be adrenal.
OK, so I should let them go in and check for botched spay first then? The
swelling stayed but the pink and discharge have gone, but the vet said that
if these were the only signs of heat then it possibly wasn't the spay at
fault (since the male isn't trying anything with her). Thing doesn't try to
scruff her, but he is neutered so would he even be interested in her?
I'll have a good long chat with the vet on Monday, see what options they can
come up with, but at least I have backing from people who know, thanks all.
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| Isotope |
> OK, so I should let them go in and check for botched spay first then? The
> swelling stayed but the pink and discharge have gone, but the vet said
that
> if these were the only signs of heat then it possibly wasn't the spay at
> fault (since the male isn't trying anything with her). Thing doesn't try
to
> scruff her, but he is neutered so would he even be interested in her?
Ok, I don't know if this helps with the possible botched spay option, but
obviously I have had Lillian in together with my neutered boys both pre and
post spay. Pre-spay (on heat) the neutered boys showed her deference. Post
spay, the boys treated her as if she was another male ferret and scruffed
her and played dominance games. She even started to play dominance games
with my wrist for a little while, till I taught her some manners. Please
don't take anything I say as gospel (I know *nothing*) but it kinda does
sound like botched spay to me from what you describe... the neutered boys
leaving the lady alone due to her "on heat" status. But this is just my own
experience with three neutered boys and one on heat ferret. Sigh. Wish there
was more info out there.....
If you go for surgery... *best* of luck!!!! I know how scary these
anaesthetics are........ though they mostly turn out ok, and I have
confidence in the vets to try their best.
Isotope
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| Bikerferret |
Isotope wrote:
> Ok, I don't know if this helps with the possible botched spay option, but
> obviously I have had Lillian in together with my neutered boys both pre
and
> post spay. Pre-spay (on heat) the neutered boys showed her deference. Post
> spay, the boys treated her as if she was another male ferret and scruffed
> her and played dominance games. She even started to play dominance games
> with my wrist for a little while, till I taught her some manners. Please
> don't take anything I say as gospel (I know *nothing*) but it kinda does
> sound like botched spay to me from what you describe... the neutered boys
> leaving the lady alone due to her "on heat" status. But this is just my
own
> experience with three neutered boys and one on heat ferret. Sigh. Wish
there
> was more info out there.....
I think the vet was saying that since the males weren't interested in her
(more so than normal), that they weren't affected by her "in heat" status,
therefore she couldn't be in heat. Which I don't get because they don't
really have the intelligence, let alone the hormonal tendencies since
they're all done in one way or another.
> If you go for surgery... *best* of luck!!!! I know how scary these
> anaesthetics are........ though they mostly turn out ok, and I have
> confidence in the vets to try their best.
Thank you :)
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| Isotope |
> I think the vet was saying that since the males weren't interested in her
> (more so than normal), that they weren't affected by her "in heat" status,
> therefore she couldn't be in heat. Which I don't get because they don't
> really have the intelligence, let alone the hormonal tendencies since
> they're all done in one way or another.
Awwww. Hard to know what occurs in their ferrety minds! I was just talking
about my experience. Just hope you get it sorted....
>
> > If you go for surgery... *best* of luck!!!! I know how scary these
> > anaesthetics are........ though they mostly turn out ok, and I have
> > confidence in the vets to try their best.
>
> Thank you :)
>
You're welcome.... just let us all know what happens...
Isotope
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| swamp |
On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 22:25:22 +0100, "Bikerferret"
<liege@bikerferret.com> wrote:
>Swamp wrote:
>> I'd be concerned as a UK owner because of the scarcity of adrenal
>> cases over there. You can't expect a vet to be experienced in treating
>> a disease s/he never sees. Good news bad news, I guess.
>
>Not experienced, no, but a little more knowledge would have been reassuring
>I guess. I wonder exactly how scarce it is over here?
That's the $1,000,000/£700,000 question. I wonder too.
>You certainly don't
>hear of the levels of tumours you have over there, but maybe that's through
>ignorance in spotting it. I don't know, I'm a little lost with it all right
>now, having heard so much about it and now there's a small possibility it
>may be happening to mine :(
Possible, but if I've learned anything from years on the "ferret
boards'' it's don't panic. Keep your eyes and mind open, give as much
unbiased info as you can, and listen to what others say. It's hard to
think straight when your ferret's sick. People uninvolved usually
think better.
>> So I assume she was spayed around first heat. Was her vulva swollen at
>> the time? If so, did it return to normal post spay? Or, did you spay
>> her before heat?
>
>Correct, I always wait until the first heat then they go straight in. She
>was swollen, but it took a couple of weeks (I think) till she went down
>afterwards. I know its roughly that, because she was indoors for a
>fortnight terrorising the kittens :)
Lots of variables here. She "went down" after the spay but the
swelling remained (reading your next paragraph)? If the swelling
remained that would indicate botched spay. If the swelling resolved
and discharge remained I'd guess infection. If the swelling remained
and discharge disappeared I'd go back to botched spay.
>> Probably both, although adrenal disease has been known to strike the
>> odd youngster. In order of likelihood I'd say ovarian remnant,
>> ineffective antibiotic or antibiotic resistant strain of bacteria,
>> then adrenals. Fortunately, w/ jills you've got a little time if it
>> *does* turn out to be adrenal.
>
>OK, so I should let them go in and check for botched spay first then?
Not yet. You've got some time. What do you mean by "she went down?" No
matter what you mean, slow down.
>The swelling stayed but the pink and discharge have gone, but the vet said that
>if these were the only signs of heat then it possibly wasn't the spay at
>fault (since the male isn't trying anything with her). Thing doesn't try to
>scruff her, but he is neutered so would he even be interested in her?
Assuming proper castration (much easier to evaluate) and non-adrenal,
no, he wouldn't.
>I'll have a good long chat with the vet on Monday, see what options they can
>come up with, but at least I have backing from people who know, thanks all.
Let us know,
swamp
"Who, me officer? What's a ferut? These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
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| Bikerferret |
Swamp wrote:
> Lots of variables here. She "went down" after the spay but the
> swelling remained (reading your next paragraph)? If the swelling
> remained that would indicate botched spay. If the swelling resolved
> and discharge remained I'd guess infection. If the swelling remained
> and discharge disappeared I'd go back to botched spay.
> Not yet. You've got some time. What do you mean by "she went down?" No
> matter what you mean, slow down.
One of these days I'll learn to engage brain before worrying in words :)
After the spay, everything was as it has been in the the other spays -
swelling disappeared, discharge went, no more jill-in-heat-smell. Stayed
like that till now where all three appeared again.
And yes, I'll think before I do, sorry about the fluster! I suppose
thinking aloud here and getting as many ideas from people I trust is the
best way I can deal with this. Forewarned is forearmed etc.
> Assuming proper castration (much easier to evaluate) and non-adrenal,
> no, he wouldn't.
I have no reason to believe Thing (who lives with her all the time, as
opposed to meeting at playtime) is adrenal, and he doesn't show any signs
that I'm aware of, of bad neuter and he plays with her in the same way as
Cindy who's in the same pen. Do you know, that hadn't even occured to me
before last night? Vet said that since he doesn't pay attention to her in
that way, it was almost guaranteed that she hadn't gone into heat. I feel
so stupid for not thinking to tell her he was neutered. What was it you
were saying about slowing down?!
I'd be great in a bigger crisis, me, wouldn't I?!
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| ZPL |
They're your kids, you are doing fine. Just an example of why doctors (and
nurses) don't treat their own family members.
"Bikerferret" <liege@bikerferret.com> wrote in message
news:bfvhh8$ji2sv$1@ID-105618.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Swamp wrote:
> > Lots of variables here. She "went down" after the spay but the
> > swelling remained (reading your next paragraph)? If the swelling
> > remained that would indicate botched spay. If the swelling resolved
> > and discharge remained I'd guess infection. If the swelling remained
> > and discharge disappeared I'd go back to botched spay.
>
> > Not yet. You've got some time. What do you mean by "she went down?" No
> > matter what you mean, slow down.
>
> One of these days I'll learn to engage brain before worrying in words :)
> After the spay, everything was as it has been in the the other spays -
> swelling disappeared, discharge went, no more jill-in-heat-smell. Stayed
> like that till now where all three appeared again.
>
> And yes, I'll think before I do, sorry about the fluster! I suppose
> thinking aloud here and getting as many ideas from people I trust is the
> best way I can deal with this. Forewarned is forearmed etc.
>
> > Assuming proper castration (much easier to evaluate) and non-adrenal,
> > no, he wouldn't.
>
> I have no reason to believe Thing (who lives with her all the time, as
> opposed to meeting at playtime) is adrenal, and he doesn't show any signs
> that I'm aware of, of bad neuter and he plays with her in the same way as
> Cindy who's in the same pen. Do you know, that hadn't even occured to me
> before last night? Vet said that since he doesn't pay attention to her in
> that way, it was almost guaranteed that she hadn't gone into heat. I feel
> so stupid for not thinking to tell her he was neutered. What was it you
> were saying about slowing down?!
>
> I'd be great in a bigger crisis, me, wouldn't I?!
>
>
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| Bikerferret |
That's very sweet, thank you. Makes sense about the drs/nurses actually.
--
Bikerferret
email: liege AT bikerferret DOT com
A website in progress: www.bikerferret.com
"ZPL" <ZPL@cox.net> wrote in message
news:OeIUa.82384$R92.43016@news2.central.cox.net...
> They're your kids, you are doing fine. Just an example of why doctors
(and
> nurses) don't treat their own family members.
>
> "Bikerferret" <liege@bikerferret.com> wrote in message
> news:bfvhh8$ji2sv$1@ID-105618.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Swamp wrote:
> > > Lots of variables here. She "went down" after the spay but the
> > > swelling remained (reading your next paragraph)? If the swelling
> > > remained that would indicate botched spay. If the swelling resolved
> > > and discharge remained I'd guess infection. If the swelling remained
> > > and discharge disappeared I'd go back to botched spay.
> >
> > > Not yet. You've got some time. What do you mean by "she went down?" No
> > > matter what you mean, slow down.
> >
> > One of these days I'll learn to engage brain before worrying in words :)
> > After the spay, everything was as it has been in the the other spays -
> > swelling disappeared, discharge went, no more jill-in-heat-smell.
Stayed
> > like that till now where all three appeared again.
> >
> > And yes, I'll think before I do, sorry about the fluster! I suppose
> > thinking aloud here and getting as many ideas from people I trust is the
> > best way I can deal with this. Forewarned is forearmed etc.
> >
> > > Assuming proper castration (much easier to evaluate) and non-adrenal,
> > > no, he wouldn't.
> >
> > I have no reason to believe Thing (who lives with her all the time, as
> > opposed to meeting at playtime) is adrenal, and he doesn't show any
signs
> > that I'm aware of, of bad neuter and he plays with her in the same way
as
> > Cindy who's in the same pen. Do you know, that hadn't even occured to
me
> > before last night? Vet said that since he doesn't pay attention to her
in
> > that way, it was almost guaranteed that she hadn't gone into heat. I
feel
> > so stupid for not thinking to tell her he was neutered. What was it you
> > were saying about slowing down?!
> >
> > I'd be great in a bigger crisis, me, wouldn't I?!
> >
> >
>
>
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| swamp |
On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 04:39:19 +0100, "Bikerferret"
<liege@bikerferret.com> wrote:
>Swamp wrote:
>> Lots of variables here. She "went down" after the spay but the
>> swelling remained (reading your next paragraph)? If the swelling
>> remained that would indicate botched spay. If the swelling resolved
>> and discharge remained I'd guess infection. If the swelling remained
>> and discharge disappeared I'd go back to botched spay.
>
>> Not yet. You've got some time. What do you mean by "she went down?" No
>> matter what you mean, slow down.
>
>One of these days I'll learn to engage brain before worrying in words :)
You normally do. No need to worry just yet.
>After the spay, everything was as it has been in the the other spays -
>swelling disappeared, discharge went, no more jill-in-heat-smell. Stayed
>like that till now where all three appeared again.
Hmm. Hope some of the breeders have contacted you. I have no
experience w/ intact ferrets in "season," just lots of reading about
them, so I don't know what jill-in-heat smells like. Adrenal ferrets
also have a particular smell. Hard to describe...
>And yes, I'll think before I do, sorry about the fluster! I suppose
>thinking aloud here and getting as many ideas from people I trust is the
>best way I can deal with this. Forewarned is forearmed etc.
Yes it is. There aren't too many things that can happen to your ferret
that haven't already happened to someone else's.
>> Assuming proper castration (much easier to evaluate) and non-adrenal,
>> no, he wouldn't.
>
>I have no reason to believe Thing (who lives with her all the time, as
>opposed to meeting at playtime) is adrenal, and he doesn't show any signs
>that I'm aware of, of bad neuter and he plays with her in the same way as
>Cindy who's in the same pen. Do you know, that hadn't even occured to me
>before last night? Vet said that since he doesn't pay attention to her in
>that way, it was almost guaranteed that she hadn't gone into heat. I feel
>so stupid for not thinking to tell her he was neutered. What was it you
>were saying about slowing down?!
Sounds like Thing (an "Addams Family" reference?) and Cindy are doing
better than you are. Actually, it sounds like Mischief is too. Hang in
there.
>I'd be great in a bigger crisis, me, wouldn't I?!
I know how difficult it is to think clearly when it's your buddy on
the line. Went thru a similar episode a few years back and posted apf
exactly as you're doing. 1000 heads are better than one, especially if
yours is under stress.
Fingers crossed for the little one,
swamp
"Who, me officer? What's a ferut? These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
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| Melissa |
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In article <bfmlcd$gng8r$1@ID-105618.news.uni-berlin.de>,
"Bikerferret" <liege@bikerferret.com> wrote:
> Thanks guys, between you all, you do come up with the goods, don't you?!
> I'll give the vet this info, the only reason I chose them is because of the
> owner's history with ferrets but we'll see how this goes.
>
> Swamp, Mischief is just a year old and was spayed mid April 2003. So,
> botched spay? Vet ass-kicking time?!
I thought I remembered you saying she was a year old and recently
spayed. That's what my guess would be. -Of course Swamp may disagree
with me! (LOL!)
-Melissa
PS: One more thought... Was she *in* heat at the time of the spay? I
know sometimes it takes a while for the hormones to normalize even after
a successful spay. If she seemed ok for a couple of months following the
surgery and these symptoms are very recent, then I'd be more likely to
think 'botched spay." If she was in heat at the time, hormone levels may
not have normalized yet. I really know nothing about how long that's
supposed to take or how it works. Just that it's not always
instantaneous. But I don't think she should go *into* heat after a spay
if she wasn't in heat before. -but, again, I'm not a vet.
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