| Please - need some help desperately - CLICK HERE for the Pet Manual Forum Home Page |
| Tammy |
First of all I know what I did was a very big no no but I just couldn't
resist. I visited my friend in TN Easter weekend. I had been talking to my
friend the week previously and she told me a new petstore just opened up in
town and that they had an albino. I've been wanting an albino for a few
years. I went down with the intention to get the albino, which is a male.
I went in Friday and held him and played a little bit. I told the owner
that I do want the critter and asked if they could keep him for me till
Monday so he wouldn't have to be alone all weekend cause we had other plans
to be away all day Sat. Anyway, on Monday I went in to get my little
critter and asked them what kind of deal they could give me for 2. They
gave me a pretty good deal so I bought 2 little critters. One male -
albino, and one female - i guess is a sable. I drove 6 hrs getting home
Monday w/2 critters.
At home, I currently had 2 critters, one female sable which is deaf and she
is about 5 years old and weighs about 1.5 lbs and a male that looks like a
raccoon and he is 3 years old and weighs about 4 - 4.5 lbs.
Don't worry, husband was home and took care of them while I was gone all
weekend.
Well, I get home and take the babies inside in their carrier and put them on
the floor. Louie, my male, comes right in and has to see what is going on.
Everything seems fine so I open the door. He runs, and then comes around
and grabs the white baby and starts shaking it. I yell at Louie and make
him drop him. He did the same w/the little female. This has been going on
everytime since Monday. Lilly, my 5 yr old female, doesn't bother them at
all. She acts like she could care less. I've put Louie in the lg carrier
that I've been keep the babies in so he will get used to their scent but
doesn't seem to be working. I never leave them alone. Today at lunch I
thought I would try again, and this time poop went flying. That is the
first time that has ever happened.
Can anybody help me with this?
Thanks so much. Sorry for the book.
Tammy
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| jm, kylie & gilbert |
Definitely keep that male away from the babies until they are big enough to
hold their own aganst him. There is also the possibility that he will never
accept the newbies. What you are describing (him grabbing them by the neck
and slamming their heads against the floor) is the most common way that a
larger ferret would kill a baby ferret. The poop flying is just
confirmation that they should NOT be together. It's up to you to protect
those babies now. You've seen enough to know that he will kill them if
given the chance. If you can't deal with separate playtimes, etc, then it
would be a good idea to either try to take them back where you got them or
rehome them. I wouldn't count on the fact that they will ever be accepted.
Just curious - is your male castrated? His aggressive behaviors could be
due to not being castrated OR it could also be signs of adrenal disease,
which shows itself by making the ferret very aggressive. Either way, not
good news for the babies and you absolutely MUST keep them separated -
starting immediately.
jacquie, kylie & gilbert
"Tammy" <vcetsb@cooketech.net> wrote in message
news:424c6de0$1_1@127.0.0.1...
> First of all I know what I did was a very big no no but I just couldn't
> resist. I visited my friend in TN Easter weekend. I had been talking to
> my friend the week previously and she told me a new petstore just opened
> up in town and that they had an albino. I've been wanting an albino for a
> few years. I went down with the intention to get the albino, which is a
> male. I went in Friday and held him and played a little bit. I told the
> owner that I do want the critter and asked if they could keep him for me
> till Monday so he wouldn't have to be alone all weekend cause we had other
> plans to be away all day Sat. Anyway, on Monday I went in to get my
> little critter and asked them what kind of deal they could give me for 2.
> They gave me a pretty good deal so I bought 2 little critters. One male -
> albino, and one female - i guess is a sable. I drove 6 hrs getting home
> Monday w/2 critters.
>
> At home, I currently had 2 critters, one female sable which is deaf and
> she is about 5 years old and weighs about 1.5 lbs and a male that looks
> like a raccoon and he is 3 years old and weighs about 4 - 4.5 lbs.
>
> Don't worry, husband was home and took care of them while I was gone all
> weekend.
>
> Well, I get home and take the babies inside in their carrier and put them
> on the floor. Louie, my male, comes right in and has to see what is going
> on. Everything seems fine so I open the door. He runs, and then comes
> around and grabs the white baby and starts shaking it. I yell at Louie
> and make him drop him. He did the same w/the little female. This has
> been going on everytime since Monday. Lilly, my 5 yr old female, doesn't
> bother them at all. She acts like she could care less. I've put Louie in
> the lg carrier that I've been keep the babies in so he will get used to
> their scent but doesn't seem to be working. I never leave them alone.
> Today at lunch I thought I would try again, and this time poop went
> flying. That is the first time that has ever happened.
>
> Can anybody help me with this?
>
> Thanks so much. Sorry for the book.
> Tammy
>
>
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| lin |
I beg to differ.
This is how ferrets establish their pecking order. It's completely normal.
Having said that: Cage them separately, & introduce them SLOWLY. It can take
time for them to get used to each other - anywhere from a couple wks, to a
few months. It took many, many months for my Ariel (who was an only fuzzy)
to accept Oberon (our 2nd one). Their initial interactions didn't involve
screaming & poop, but definite fighting. When we got our latest addition,
Puck, he took a lot of abuse from Ariel & Max (our 3rd family member) for
about 2 mos before they began to accept him. Oberon, however, took to Puck
almost immediately.
It takes slow, steady persistance. Grabbing by the scruff, dragging, &
screaming is completely normal. If you see flying poop, separate them for a
few min & try again. If you see blood, stop completely for the day & try
again the next day. It's true that some ferrets will never get along w/
others, but mostly, it just takes time.
Good luck, & don't panic yet!
--
Lin, Ariel, Oberon, Max, & Puck
To email me back, take out everything from "K" to "2"
"jm, kylie & gilbert" <2jmpnmse@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1V%2e.9663$z.9027@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Definitely keep that male away from the babies until they are big enough
> to hold their own aganst him. There is also the possibility that he will
> never accept the newbies. What you are describing (him grabbing them by
> the neck and slamming their heads against the floor) is the most common
> way that a larger ferret would kill a baby ferret. The poop flying is
> just confirmation that they should NOT be together. It's up to you to
> protect those babies now. You've seen enough to know that he will kill
> them if given the chance. If you can't deal with separate playtimes, etc,
> then it would be a good idea to either try to take them back where you got
> them or rehome them. I wouldn't count on the fact that they will ever be
> accepted.
>
> Just curious - is your male castrated? His aggressive behaviors could be
> due to not being castrated OR it could also be signs of adrenal disease,
> which shows itself by making the ferret very aggressive. Either way, not
> good news for the babies and you absolutely MUST keep them separated -
> starting immediately.
>
> jacquie, kylie & gilbert
>
> "Tammy" <vcetsb@cooketech.net> wrote in message
> news:424c6de0$1_1@127.0.0.1...
>> First of all I know what I did was a very big no no but I just couldn't
>> resist. I visited my friend in TN Easter weekend. I had been talking to
>> my friend the week previously and she told me a new petstore just opened
>> up in town and that they had an albino. I've been wanting an albino for
>> a few years. I went down with the intention to get the albino, which is
>> a male. I went in Friday and held him and played a little bit. I told
>> the owner that I do want the critter and asked if they could keep him for
>> me till Monday so he wouldn't have to be alone all weekend cause we had
>> other plans to be away all day Sat. Anyway, on Monday I went in to get
>> my little critter and asked them what kind of deal they could give me for
>> 2. They gave me a pretty good deal so I bought 2 little critters. One
>> male - albino, and one female - i guess is a sable. I drove 6 hrs
>> getting home Monday w/2 critters.
>>
>> At home, I currently had 2 critters, one female sable which is deaf and
>> she is about 5 years old and weighs about 1.5 lbs and a male that looks
>> like a raccoon and he is 3 years old and weighs about 4 - 4.5 lbs.
>>
>> Don't worry, husband was home and took care of them while I was gone all
>> weekend.
>>
>> Well, I get home and take the babies inside in their carrier and put them
>> on the floor. Louie, my male, comes right in and has to see what is
>> going on. Everything seems fine so I open the door. He runs, and then
>> comes around and grabs the white baby and starts shaking it. I yell at
>> Louie and make him drop him. He did the same w/the little female. This
>> has been going on everytime since Monday. Lilly, my 5 yr old female,
>> doesn't bother them at all. She acts like she could care less. I've put
>> Louie in the lg carrier that I've been keep the babies in so he will get
>> used to their scent but doesn't seem to be working. I never leave them
>> alone. Today at lunch I thought I would try again, and this time poop
>> went flying. That is the first time that has ever happened.
>>
>> Can anybody help me with this?
>>
>> Thanks so much. Sorry for the book.
>> Tammy
>>
>>
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>> News==----
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>> Newsgroups
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| vintage |
I'm with lin, been there done that and many times! It's scary and sad
to see what you've seen. BUT when the babies grow up, mature and gain
weight and get some b@lls! It very much can work out. It just takes
time and supervison. My jazzy would sneak up on the babies when they
were sleeping and grap their jugulars and shake shake shake. One day,
the babies weighed more than she and taught HER a lesson and they are
inseperable ever since. Jazzy has been this way with THREE ferrets in
the last year and has eventually submitted to them. I have currently
adopted two big BIG boys and jazzy tries her crap on them, and until
they decide they are sick of it it will continue....but they will get
sick of her nasty attitude and put her temper in place and the boyz
will fall into my crew of 10.
I have another female Sugar Pie and one other male who do this same
thing. It can and does work out...with the babies tho??? They gota
grow, mature and keep supervised visits up! Be there for sure and all
will be ok!
:) Good luck and hang in there!
|
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| swamp |
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 15:35:32 -0600, "Tammy" <vcetsb@cooketech.net>
wrote:
>Well, I get home and take the babies inside in their carrier and put them on
>the floor. Louie, my male, comes right in and has to see what is going on.
>Everything seems fine so I open the door. He runs, and then comes around
>and grabs the white baby and starts shaking it. I yell at Louie and make
>him drop him. He did the same w/the little female. This has been going on
>everytime since Monday. Lilly, my 5 yr old female, doesn't bother them at
>all. She acts like she could care less. I've put Louie in the lg carrier
>that I've been keep the babies in so he will get used to their scent but
>doesn't seem to be working. I never leave them alone. Today at lunch I
>thought I would try again, and this time poop went flying. That is the
>first time that has ever happened.
You introduced them a bit abruptly, Tammy. But, that's done, and
there's something you can still try before giving in to separate
playtimes:
Get another cage. Nothing fancy. could be temporary. Set the cages
side by side so the ferrets can get used to each other's smell *and*
presence. Swap bedding and some litter daily by using the carrier as
holding pen between run times. After a week or so put fresh bedding
and litter in both cages by separating the ferrets in different rooms.
Lay towels down on the bathroom floor (important!!), turn the shower
on (human comfort level has worked for me, others suggest slightly
warmer), and put the ferrets in the shower/tub two by two, closing the
bathroom door behind you after you bring in the second pair (also
important). Bathe them all using the same shampoo. I get in and use
Johnson's Baby shampoo on everyone, including myself. You can try this
from outside the shower/tub if you prefer, but believe me, you'll get
just as wet as if you'd joined them. Also, the ferrets will slip past
you unless you're really quick.
Once you've rinsed them all off, set them on the towels and let them
go to town. They'll be so busy getting the water and "yucky" smell off
themselves they won't bother w/ fighting. This process takes about 2
minutes, after which you tidy them up using whichever towel is
handiest. Voila! You and they all smell like yucky shampoo, their
beddings smell like yucky Downey or Tide, and their litter smells
equally "pretty." Gotta think like a ferret.
I don't guarantee this "immersion" technique will work the first time,
but it certainly gets their attention, and induces them to unite
against the evil bath-giver owner.
>Can anybody help me with this?
>
>Thanks so much. Sorry for the book.
>Tammy
Good luck, and guessing they'll settle in,
swamp
--
"Who me officer? What's a ferut. These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
|
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| Gar & Dar |
Last fall we introduced a new baby to our gang, a few weeks after we
lost what was the alpha male of our business, and so there was our
Patches who was trying to assert himself in this role. He did the same
thing to the new baby boy. For the first couple of months we had to
keep them separated, when Patches was out, baby Taz was in the cage
and vice versa. This way they got used to each others smell. Slowly
and under supervision we let them go to it, until it was too rough, at
first only seconds, but finally came the day were we knew baby Taz
was big enough to take care of himself and basically let them go to it.
There were screams, a lot of chasing but as long as there was no
blood or poops, we closed our ears. In about a day it was finally over.
This is the longest I have ever had to go to get them over this pecking
order, but, with patience it can be done in "almost" all cases. Today,
they are buds and play fine together. Patches is the boss and has no
one trying to take it away from him.
"Tammy" <vcetsb@cooketech.net> wrote in message
news:424c6de0$1_1@127.0.0.1...
> First of all I know what I did was a very big no no but I just couldn't
> resist. I visited my friend in TN Easter weekend. I had been talking to
> my friend the week previously and she told me a new petstore just opened
> up in town and that they had an albino. I've been wanting an albino for a
> few years. I went down with the intention to get the albino, which is a
> male. I went in Friday and held him and played a little bit. I told the
> owner that I do want the critter and asked if they could keep him for me
> till Monday so he wouldn't have to be alone all weekend cause we had other
> plans to be away all day Sat. Anyway, on Monday I went in to get my
> little critter and asked them what kind of deal they could give me for 2.
> They gave me a pretty good deal so I bought 2 little critters. One male -
> albino, and one female - i guess is a sable. I drove 6 hrs getting home
> Monday w/2 critters.
>
> At home, I currently had 2 critters, one female sable which is deaf and
> she is about 5 years old and weighs about 1.5 lbs and a male that looks
> like a raccoon and he is 3 years old and weighs about 4 - 4.5 lbs.
>
> Don't worry, husband was home and took care of them while I was gone all
> weekend.
>
> Well, I get home and take the babies inside in their carrier and put them
> on the floor. Louie, my male, comes right in and has to see what is going
> on. Everything seems fine so I open the door. He runs, and then comes
> around and grabs the white baby and starts shaking it. I yell at Louie
> and make him drop him. He did the same w/the little female. This has
> been going on everytime since Monday. Lilly, my 5 yr old female, doesn't
> bother them at all. She acts like she could care less. I've put Louie in
> the lg carrier that I've been keep the babies in so he will get used to
> their scent but doesn't seem to be working. I never leave them alone.
> Today at lunch I thought I would try again, and this time poop went
> flying. That is the first time that has ever happened.
>
> Can anybody help me with this?
>
> Thanks so much. Sorry for the book.
> Tammy
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----
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| John&Diane Kolomijez |
I agree 100% with Lin's advice & suggesions. It takes time, patience and
extensive supervision. There are no gurantees, and occasionally some
ferrets just never get along and need separate play times. But, you won't
know that if you give up too quickly or easily.
Be persistant and as I mentioned, keep them completely supervised when you
allow them their time to acclimate. Make the sessions short, so not to put
excess stress on any of them, especially the little one getting dragged
around & assaulted..
I wish you & your fuzzies luck. Hopefully, they will establish their
dominance in a normal fashion (which they seem to be doing for the time
being). And if it turns out they never really will be buddies, they can
still enjoy the company of those they do get along with. It's not too
difficult to make separate play-times available. You just need to be
willing to commit.
Please keep us updated. We're here if you need our support & encouragement.
Diane & The Boops
"lin" <ktnil@KAZMOMX2woh.rr.com> wrote in message
news:fL23e.1132$tI6.498@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
> I beg to differ.
>
> This is how ferrets establish their pecking order. It's completely normal.
>
> Having said that: Cage them separately, & introduce them SLOWLY. It can
take
> time for them to get used to each other - anywhere from a couple wks, to a
> few months. It took many, many months for my Ariel (who was an only fuzzy)
> to accept Oberon (our 2nd one). Their initial interactions didn't involve
> screaming & poop, but definite fighting. When we got our latest addition,
> Puck, he took a lot of abuse from Ariel & Max (our 3rd family member) for
> about 2 mos before they began to accept him. Oberon, however, took to Puck
> almost immediately.
>
> It takes slow, steady persistance. Grabbing by the scruff, dragging, &
> screaming is completely normal. If you see flying poop, separate them for
a
> few min & try again. If you see blood, stop completely for the day & try
> again the next day. It's true that some ferrets will never get along w/
> others, but mostly, it just takes time.
>
> Good luck, & don't panic yet!
>
> --
> Lin, Ariel, Oberon, Max, & Puck
> To email me back, take out everything from "K" to "2"
>
> "jm, kylie & gilbert" <2jmpnmse@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:1V%2e.9663$z.9027@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> > Definitely keep that male away from the babies until they are big enough
> > to hold their own aganst him. There is also the possibility that he
will
> > never accept the newbies. What you are describing (him grabbing them
by
> > the neck and slamming their heads against the floor) is the most common
> > way that a larger ferret would kill a baby ferret. The poop flying is
> > just confirmation that they should NOT be together. It's up to you to
> > protect those babies now. You've seen enough to know that he will kill
> > them if given the chance. If you can't deal with separate playtimes,
etc,
> > then it would be a good idea to either try to take them back where you
got
> > them or rehome them. I wouldn't count on the fact that they will ever
be
> > accepted.
> >
> > Just curious - is your male castrated? His aggressive behaviors could
be
> > due to not being castrated OR it could also be signs of adrenal disease,
> > which shows itself by making the ferret very aggressive. Either way,
not
> > good news for the babies and you absolutely MUST keep them separated -
> > starting immediately.
> >
> > jacquie, kylie & gilbert
> >
> > "Tammy" <vcetsb@cooketech.net> wrote in message
> > news:424c6de0$1_1@127.0.0.1...
> >> First of all I know what I did was a very big no no but I just couldn't
> >> resist. I visited my friend in TN Easter weekend. I had been talking
to
> >> my friend the week previously and she told me a new petstore just
opened
> >> up in town and that they had an albino. I've been wanting an albino
for
> >> a few years. I went down with the intention to get the albino, which
is
> >> a male. I went in Friday and held him and played a little bit. I told
> >> the owner that I do want the critter and asked if they could keep him
for
> >> me till Monday so he wouldn't have to be alone all weekend cause we had
> >> other plans to be away all day Sat. Anyway, on Monday I went in to get
> >> my little critter and asked them what kind of deal they could give me
for
> >> 2. They gave me a pretty good deal so I bought 2 little critters. One
> >> male - albino, and one female - i guess is a sable. I drove 6 hrs
> >> getting home Monday w/2 critters.
> >>
> >> At home, I currently had 2 critters, one female sable which is deaf and
> >> she is about 5 years old and weighs about 1.5 lbs and a male that looks
> >> like a raccoon and he is 3 years old and weighs about 4 - 4.5 lbs.
> >>
> >> Don't worry, husband was home and took care of them while I was gone
all
> >> weekend.
> >>
> >> Well, I get home and take the babies inside in their carrier and put
them
> >> on the floor. Louie, my male, comes right in and has to see what is
> >> going on. Everything seems fine so I open the door. He runs, and then
> >> comes around and grabs the white baby and starts shaking it. I yell at
> >> Louie and make him drop him. He did the same w/the little female.
This
> >> has been going on everytime since Monday. Lilly, my 5 yr old female,
> >> doesn't bother them at all. She acts like she could care less. I've
put
> >> Louie in the lg carrier that I've been keep the babies in so he will
get
> >> used to their scent but doesn't seem to be working. I never leave them
> >> alone. Today at lunch I thought I would try again, and this time poop
> >> went flying. That is the first time that has ever happened.
> >>
> >> Can anybody help me with this?
> >>
> >> Thanks so much. Sorry for the book.
> >> Tammy
> >>
> >>
> >> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> >> News==----
> >> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
120,000+
> >> Newsgroups
> >> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> >> =----
> >
> >
>
>
|
|
|
| Jim Higgins |
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 02:56:11 GMT, in
<fL23e.1132$tI6.498@fe2.columbus.rr.com>, "lin"
<ktnil@KAZMOMX2woh.rr.com> wrote:
>I beg to differ.
>
>This is how ferrets establish their pecking order. It's completely normal.
>
>Having said that: Cage them separately, & introduce them SLOWLY. It can take
>time for them to get used to each other - anywhere from a couple wks, to a
>few months. It took many, many months for my Ariel (who was an only fuzzy)
>to accept Oberon (our 2nd one). Their initial interactions didn't involve
>screaming & poop, but definite fighting. When we got our latest addition,
>Puck, he took a lot of abuse from Ariel & Max (our 3rd family member) for
>about 2 mos before they began to accept him. Oberon, however, took to Puck
>almost immediately.
>
>It takes slow, steady persistance. Grabbing by the scruff, dragging, &
>screaming is completely normal. If you see flying poop, separate them for a
>few min & try again. If you see blood, stop completely for the day & try
>again the next day. It's true that some ferrets will never get along w/
>others, but mostly, it just takes time.
>
>Good luck, & don't panic yet!
That looks like a plan for introducing ferrets of comparable
ability to defend themselves. It's not an appropriate approach
for the introduction of new babies to adults any more than it's
an approach to resolving conflict between a human 5-yr old and
his 9-yr old sibling.
If poop flies - and it already has - limit their interaction to
thru cage bars until they're a closer match physically. Then if
they want to mix it up to determine who's the alpha, Lin's advice
above looks worth a try... with the addition of a warning that if
one is consistently trying to get away from the other, provide a
safe haven for him and change the approach. A constantly
attacked and retreating ferret has given up dominance and a
continued (over days, not just minutes) attack is more than a
dominance ritual. Allowing that behavior to continue is little
more than abuse by proxy.
|
|
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| jm, kylie & gilbert |
Duh...LOL...I went back and re-read your post. I'm not sure where I saw it
written that he was 'slamming them against the floor' (maybe I was dreamin'?
LOL) Anyway, for some reason I was reading into the that he was slamming
their heads against the floor. As long as he is just shaking them, that
*is* normal behavior, as others have stated. As long as they are pooping
tho, they need to be supervised closely and separated if he gets too rough
with them.
Sorry about my jumping to conclusions.....the advice you have received from
the others is correct. <drops head in embarassment> Hope your new kids
will adjust and be accepted by your existing ferets. The old saying is "no
poop, no blood, no foul" - so do watch if they continue to get upset enough
that they poop. Also, do keep an eye on that older male to be sure he' not
exhibiting unusually aggressive behavior, which could indicate adrenal
disease. Best of luck!
jm, kylie & gilbert
"Tammy" <vcetsb@cooketech.net> wrote in message
news:424c6de0$1_1@127.0.0.1...
> First of all I know what I did was a very big no no but I just couldn't
> resist. I visited my friend in TN Easter weekend. I had been talking to
> my friend the week previously and she told me a new petstore just opened
> up in town and that they had an albino. I've been wanting an albino for a
> few years. I went down with the intention to get the albino, which is a
> male. I went in Friday and held him and played a little bit. I told the
> owner that I do want the critter and asked if they could keep him for me
> till Monday so he wouldn't have to be alone all weekend cause we had other
> plans to be away all day Sat. Anyway, on Monday I went in to get my
> little critter and asked them what kind of deal they could give me for 2.
> They gave me a pretty good deal so I bought 2 little critters. One male -
> albino, and one female - i guess is a sable. I drove 6 hrs getting home
> Monday w/2 critters.
>
> At home, I currently had 2 critters, one female sable which is deaf and
> she is about 5 years old and weighs about 1.5 lbs and a male that looks
> like a raccoon and he is 3 years old and weighs about 4 - 4.5 lbs.
>
> Don't worry, husband was home and took care of them while I was gone all
> weekend.
>
> Well, I get home and take the babies inside in their carrier and put them
> on the floor. Louie, my male, comes right in and has to see what is going
> on. Everything seems fine so I open the door. He runs, and then comes
> around and grabs the white baby and starts shaking it. I yell at Louie
> and make him drop him. He did the same w/the little female. This has
> been going on everytime since Monday. Lilly, my 5 yr old female, doesn't
> bother them at all. She acts like she could care less. I've put Louie in
> the lg carrier that I've been keep the babies in so he will get used to
> their scent but doesn't seem to be working. I never leave them alone.
> Today at lunch I thought I would try again, and this time poop went
> flying. That is the first time that has ever happened.
>
> Can anybody help me with this?
>
> Thanks so much. Sorry for the book.
> Tammy
>
>
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