| Re: Psittacosis again - CLICK HERE for the Pet Manual Forum Home Page |
| Vox |
On 9-Jul-2003, ^^ Bex ^^ <bex@darkwave.org.uk> wrote:
> Magic, my remaining budgie has tested positive for psittacosis :(
>
> The vet is still advising having the animal destroyed (horrible term). I
> can't even tell if he's taking his Baytril, but I know I don't want to end
> his life just cos he may be a risk to me. Has anyone else gone through
> this and had a nice life with a budgie who's been 'cured'?
It's pretty common in budgies and 'tiels, which is why most breeders of
bigger parrots won't keep either in their aviaries, the risk of cross
infection
is too great.
It is endemic in the wild bird population as well. The usual antibiotic of
choice is doxycyclin not baytril. 1 injection in the pectoral muscle
(Vibramycin
or Mildox) is usually OK for larger birds as there is a danger of tissue
necrosis
at the site of injection. For the smaller birds it is usually given orally
via the
drinking water for 3 or 4 weeks. There is no reason to euthanize an infected
bird.
Vox.
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| Owly |
"^^ Bex ^^" <bex@darkwave.org.uk> wrote in message
news:t6logvkkdsoc3807l3g99a4bmioporqfmv@4ax.com...
> I can't even tell if he's taking his Baytril
You can't tell if he's getting it, or if he's getting the proper dose to
clear up the infection or only enough to help build resistance, when dosed
this way.
I'm very sorry to hear this, but the things you've said about this vet make
me wonder if the "it's only a budgie" mentality is at work here. I
successfully treated psitticosis in a cockatiel several years ago, via the
oral administration of the proper dosage of Baytril for his weight for a
period of 30 days, it isn't a death sentence and I'm disgusted that your vet
would suggest such a thing as euthanasia. Take heart, Bex :). You and your
budgie can beat this thing with proper treatment :).
--
owly
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| Mamabird |
"Owly" <owly@email.com> wrote in message
news:IFZOa.16252$GL4.3685@rwcrnsc53...
>
> I'm very sorry to hear this, but the things you've said about this vet
make
> me wonder if the "it's only a budgie" mentality is at work here. I
> successfully treated psitticosis in a cockatiel several years ago, via
the
> oral administration of the proper dosage of Baytril for his weight for a
> period of 30 days, it isn't a death sentence and I'm disgusted that your
vet
> would suggest such a thing as euthanasia. Take heart, Bex :). You and
your
> budgie can beat this thing with proper treatment :).
> --
I'll amen that!
--
Mama
~^~^~^~ Visit Mamabird's Nest: <http://iluvbirds.tripod.com/> And My
Photo Albums at: <http://photos.yahoo.com/iluvbirdz>
"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."
Anatole France
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
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| Mamabird |
"^^ Bex ^^" <bex@darkwave.org.uk> wrote in message
news:qk3pgvgoo4j53iuvtgb7onuvdmo4bdrg36@4ax.com...
> I can't believe they are just giving up on
> him. Any advice?
Yes, I have some advice. Don't YOU give up! You have to remain calm for
Magic or else he'll sense how upset you are and he doesn't need the added
stress. (Nor do you.)
Get his medicine into him as best you can and try to keep a positive
outlook. If you can't get him to take the full dose, it's probably not
going to make a big difference. Most vets make allowance for that. Maybe
that's why this vet made the dosage stronger.
Don't expect the meds to start working right away, give it a few days to
take effect.
I have to say I'm shocked by the vet's attitude....
Hang in there.
--
Mama
~^~^~^~ Visit Mamabird's Nest: <http://iluvbirds.tripod.com/> And My
Photo Albums at: <http://photos.yahoo.com/iluvbirdz>
"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened."
Anatole France
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
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| Joanne |
"^^ Bex ^^" <bex@darkwave.org.uk> wrote in message
news:qk3pgvgoo4j53iuvtgb7onuvdmo4bdrg36@4ax.com...>
> Tonight I tried pasta (he hates soft food so that didn't work), syringe to
> the mouth (but obviously I could only get him to take about 0.2ml) and
> eventually settled on smearing the 0.1ml on to a lettuce leaf. I went out
> for a while and when I came back he'd eaten it! I'm so pleased!! Lettuce
> is his fave food, one the Baytril had dried he didn't seem to mind eating
> it.
I've given Baytril two ways. One was as an injection; the other directly
into the mouth with a syringe without the needle attached.
Baytril smells bad and tastes bad even when mixed with some fruity extra.
My previous vet insisted that injecting was the only way to assure dosage.
My current vet takes a more lenient consumer approach and provides oral
Baytril mixed with the creamy cherry goo. I've never treated for
psitticosis but have used Baytril for other things as prescribed.
No vet has ever suggested adding it to water. What bird would drink it?
Not mine.
So, I would suggest assuring that all the medication enters the bird by
putting it in his mouth and kissing him until he swallows a few times. That
way, when you turn him loose he won't shake it out of his mouth as I've seen
mine do in the past.
Don't give up. Medicating is a pain in the neck and less fun for the animal
but the medicine is powerful and will work if you can get the proper
quantity into the bird.
--
Sincerely,
Joanne
If it's right for you, then it's right, . . . . . for you!!!
Play - http://www.jobird.com
Pay for Play - http://www.jobird.com/refund.htm
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| ^^ Bex ^^ |
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:09:01 GMT, "Mamabird" <iluvbirdz.@earthdirect.com>
wrote:
>"^^ Bex ^^" <bex@darkwave.org.uk> wrote in message
>news:qk3pgvgoo4j53iuvtgb7onuvdmo4bdrg36@4ax.com...
>> I can't believe they are just giving up on
>> him. Any advice?
>
>Yes, I have some advice. Don't YOU give up! You have to remain calm for
>Magic or else he'll sense how upset you are and he doesn't need the added
>stress. (Nor do you.)
>
>Get his medicine into him as best you can and try to keep a positive
>outlook. If you can't get him to take the full dose, it's probably not
>going to make a big difference. Most vets make allowance for that. Maybe
>that's why this vet made the dosage stronger.
>
>Don't expect the meds to start working right away, give it a few days to
>take effect.
>
>I have to say I'm shocked by the vet's attitude....
>Hang in there.
Thank you, those positive words mean a lot to me. I'm taking tomorrow off,
I shall relax a bit, make sure he's comfortable and the cage is clean...try
not to bug him (I'm sure he's sick of my worried face peering at him).
Vets just never seem to care about small animals, it's like you count less
the smaller you are. To her it's 'just a budgie' but to me it's a friend
who's relying on my to help him.
I'm thinking of phoning the vet in Coventry to see if they have any further
advice. I've read that Baytril is second best to Doxycyclin as Baytril
clears the symptoms but not the disease. So to be sure...as my vet seems
rather uninterested...I shall see if I can get a second opinion on the
medication...plus some tips on getting it into him.
My god...it's worse than having children. I don't know how you all cope!
Bex
__________________________________________________
__________________
Pray for that day when you'll leave behind the grey
Pray for that day when your feet could walk on different soil
http://www.darkwave.org.uk/~bex
@ update: 14/12/02 @
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| ^^ Bex ^^ |
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:15:50 GMT, "Joanne" <Joanne@jobird.com> wrote:
>I've given Baytril two ways. One was as an injection; the other directly
>into the mouth with a syringe without the needle attached.
>
>Baytril smells bad and tastes bad even when mixed with some fruity extra.
>
>My previous vet insisted that injecting was the only way to assure dosage.
>My current vet takes a more lenient consumer approach and provides oral
>Baytril mixed with the creamy cherry goo. I've never treated for
>psitticosis but have used Baytril for other things as prescribed.
>
>No vet has ever suggested adding it to water. What bird would drink it?
>Not mine.
and not mine either! You should have seen his face when I dropped a little
into his beak. It's gross stuff but he can be grumpy at me if he
likes...so long as he takes it.
>So, I would suggest assuring that all the medication enters the bird by
>putting it in his mouth and kissing him until he swallows a few times. That
>way, when you turn him loose he won't shake it out of his mouth as I've seen
>mine do in the past.
Although unfortunately with this disease that could be a very bad move.
Pssitacosis is a serious health risk to humans. I looked after my other
birdie until she died and haven't got anything nasty yet...but I don't want
to push my luck. The vet would have be approaching in an apron, gloves and
mask but I think that sounds like the ideal way to stress a bird to me.
>Don't give up. Medicating is a pain in the neck and less fun for the animal
>but the medicine is powerful and will work if you can get the proper
>quantity into the bird.
I shall persevere.
Bex
__________________________________________________
__________________
Pray for that day when you'll leave behind the grey
Pray for that day when your feet could walk on different soil
http://www.darkwave.org.uk/~bex
@ update: 14/12/02 @
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| Joanne |
"^^ Bex ^^" <bex@darkwave.org.uk> wrote in message
news:ebapgvok8arsu4e368nnnc7obsgac3ja61@4ax.com...
>
> Although unfortunately with this disease that could be a very bad move.
> Pssitacosis is a serious health risk to humans. I looked after my other
> birdie until she died and haven't got anything nasty yet...but I don't
want
> to push my luck. The vet would have be approaching in an apron, gloves
and
> mask but I think that sounds like the ideal way to stress a bird to me.
You are right; I wasn't thinking about the transmission to human aspect.
I'm just so used to kissing birds it becomes natural to kiss them for any
reason.
Thanks for the caution reminder. DON'T KISS HER, until she is well.
--
Sincerely,
Joanne
If it's right for you, then it's right, . . . . . for you!!!
Play - http://www.jobird.com
Pay for Play - http://www.jobird.com/refund.htm
Looking for Love? - http://www.jobird.com/hearts.htm
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| Starlight |
On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 23:25:02 GMT, ^^ Bex ^^ <bex@darkwave.org.uk>
wrote:
>I'm thinking of phoning the vet in Coventry to see if they have any further
>advice. I've read that Baytril is second best to Doxycyclin as Baytril
>clears the symptoms but not the disease. So to be sure...as my vet seems
>rather uninterested...I shall see if I can get a second opinion on the
>medication...plus some tips on getting it into him.
>
>
Bex, are you getting a good hold of his head with your fingers? I
hold the budgie in a washcloth in my left hand, with my thumb and
second finger on either side of the head/beak. I don't lay them
completely back, but hold them slightly upright. If you tilt the
head back very, very, very slightly, with a little bit of pressure
from your fingers, the beak will open enough for you to drop the
medication in along the side of the tongue. I had to medicate my tiny
rescue budgie for a month, and feel I got most of the medication in
her everytime using that method. Good luck. I know it's terribly
stressful, but if you approach it with a determined attitude and just
get the job done as quickly as you can, it will be easier on both of
you.
Becky
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| Vox |
On 9-Jul-2003, ^^ Bex ^^ <bex@darkwave.org.uk> wrote:
> I thought that too but then I read this:
>
> "Currently, there has been success in the treatment of psittacosis using
> the newer quinolone antibiotics, such as enrofloxacin ('Baytril'). This
> drug is more palatable and stable in the drinking water, and the
> injectable
> form is less likely to produce muscle damage than are the tetracyclines.
> It
> appears also that cure rates may be obtained in 14-21 days. However, there
> is evidence to suggest that apparent 'cures' are in fact just clinical
> improvements with the birds still remaining infected acting as carriers. "
Chlamydia is a strange bug, it is a bacterium which acts within the cell so
it is understandable that it would be more difficult to treat than other
pathogens.
I would be hesitant to accept the bland statement " there
is evidence to suggest that apparent 'cures' are in fact just clinical
improvements with the birds still remaining infected acting as carriers."
unless there were actual clinical trials to support it. My assessment of
the situation is that the treatment might have been terminated too early by
the
bird's owner, resulting in an incomplete cure and a subsequent relapse.
Vox.
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| Vox |
On 10-Jul-2003, ^^ Bex ^^ <bex@darkwave.org.uk> wrote:
> But how the heck do I get proper treatment, the previous vet was worse and
> there's not a proper avian vet for miles. Magic is currently on Bayril at
> 0.1ml mixed with 2ml of water. This is much stronger than the last vet
> gave us but it's hard to get that amount in him per day.
The best way to treat him orally is to dose him daily with a tube attached
to an appropriately sized syringe, directly into his crop. It is really
very
easy to do once the Vet or someone else has shown you how to go about it.
I medicate all my birds this way, from Macaws to wild-caught Greys, Capes
and Jardines. It is the only sure way to give them a correct dose orally,
especially when administering anthelmintics.
If they are biters, I use a cut down section of mesh and let them bite on
that while I put the tube down their gullet and into the crop.
Vox.
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| Vox |
On 10-Jul-2003, ^^ Bex ^^ <bex@darkwave.org.uk> wrote:
> Would you ask for Doxy as opposed to Baytril though? I want to do what's
> best and it seems I have to ask for what I want rather than the vet having
> a clue!
>
> Bex
Most definitely! I am not a great fan of Baytril, it can have some nasty
side effects. I only use it when absolutely necessary.
Vox.
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| ^^ Bex ^^ |
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 10:53:29 GMT, "Vox" <vox@beaverliquor.net> wrote:
>The best way to treat him orally is to dose him daily with a tube attached
>to an appropriately sized syringe, directly into his crop. It is really
>very
>easy to do once the Vet or someone else has shown you how to go about it.
>I medicate all my birds this way, from Macaws to wild-caught Greys, Capes
>and Jardines. It is the only sure way to give them a correct dose orally,
>especially when administering anthelmintics.
>If they are biters, I use a cut down section of mesh and let them bite on
>that while I put the tube down their gullet and into the crop.
The vet won't see us so I can't get her to show me :(
Bex
__________________________________________________
__________________
Pray for that day when you'll leave behind the grey
Pray for that day when your feet could walk on different soil
http://www.darkwave.org.uk/~bex
@ update: 14/12/02 @
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| oldmolly |
"^^ Bex ^^" <bex@darkwave.org.uk> wrote in message
news:t6logvkkdsoc3807l3g99a4bmioporqfmv@4ax.com...
>
> Magic, my remaining budgie has tested positive for psittacosis :(
>
> The vet is still advising having the animal destroyed (horrible term). I
> can't even tell if he's taking his Baytril, but I know I don't want to end
> his life just cos he may be a risk to me. Has anyone else gone through
> this and had a nice life with a budgie who's been 'cured'?
>
I would change vets when he is cured Bex. The one you have doesn't sound
very nice at all. If it is any help I knew someone who had several princess
of wales parakeets who all had psittacosis and they were cured eventually
ok.
Did you manage to find an avian vet closer to you?
---
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| ^^ Bex ^^ |
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 16:00:19 +0100, "oldmolly" <oldmolly@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
>
>"^^ Bex ^^" <bex@darkwave.org.uk> wrote in message
>news:t6logvkkdsoc3807l3g99a4bmioporqfmv@4ax.com...
>>
>> Magic, my remaining budgie has tested positive for psittacosis :(
>>
>> The vet is still advising having the animal destroyed (horrible term). I
>> can't even tell if he's taking his Baytril, but I know I don't want to end
>> his life just cos he may be a risk to me. Has anyone else gone through
>> this and had a nice life with a budgie who's been 'cured'?
>>
> I would change vets when he is cured Bex. The one you have doesn't sound
>very nice at all. If it is any help I knew someone who had several princess
>of wales parakeets who all had psittacosis and they were cured eventually
>ok.
>Did you manage to find an avian vet closer to you?
The other side of the city but at least it's reachable. going to see him
early tomorrow, hope he's kind.
Have developed a strong aversion to vets!
Bex
__________________________________________________
__________________
Pray for that day when you'll leave behind the grey
Pray for that day when your feet could walk on different soil
http://www.darkwave.org.uk/~bex
@ update: 14/12/02 @
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| Lea15 |
i had a tiel who tested positive for psittacosis. he was on antibiotics for
about 30 days and is healthy now nearly 3 years after testing positive. it is
possible. i gave my tiel his antibiotics with a eye dropper and not in his
water.
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