| Re: Confusion regarding rabid ferret law. - CLICK HERE for the Pet Manual Forum Home Page |
| Pain Devine |
I've never heard of any such law. If there were such a law it's probably a
local law. I'd call a well know ferret Vet in your area and ask. They'd
know.
"Matthew Spaltro" <ferretface40@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:747bd89e.0406210830.5d908a53@posting.google.com...
> I have a question about the dumb law that states that ferrets must be
> automaticly put to sleep if a bite report has been issued. What if
> the ferret bite does not break the skin. Will the animal still be put
> down? For instance if a ferret is taken to the vet for a routine exam
> meaning the animal is perfectly healthy and the vet or nurse gets
> bitten but the bite does not break the skin will the ferret be put to
> sleep?
>
> What about if the ferret is sick and it is obvious and it bites the
> nurse or vet but does not break the skin will it then be put to sleep?
|
|
|
| ZPL |
Ferrets are considered exotic pets. Most local laws state that if an exotic
pet bites, or if someone is exposed to the saliva or CNS tissue, the animal
can immediately be put down. Even if that person has a hangnail, the virus
can enter.
Where this comes from is that they really have no hard facts (read: no
research done) on the efficacy of rabies vaccinations on exotic or hybrid
animals.
The same holds true for wolf-hybrid dogs, pet skunks, etc.
"Matthew Spaltro" <ferretface40@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:747bd89e.0406210830.5d908a53@posting.google.com...
> I have a question about the dumb law that states that ferrets must be
> automaticly put to sleep if a bite report has been issued. What if
> the ferret bite does not break the skin. Will the animal still be put
> down? For instance if a ferret is taken to the vet for a routine exam
> meaning the animal is perfectly healthy and the vet or nurse gets
> bitten but the bite does not break the skin will the ferret be put to
> sleep?
>
> What about if the ferret is sick and it is obvious and it bites the
> nurse or vet but does not break the skin will it then be put to sleep?
|
|
|
| Ilena Ayala |
I'm just going to add here that the link swamp posted is the AMVA Compendium
for Rabies Control. It is the *national* recommendations from which most
states draw their procedures on handling bite incidents.
The long and the short of it is that there is an approved rabies vaccine for
ferrets. If the animal is vaccinated and *appears healthy*, it will most
likely just be quarantined in a reported bite incident.
If the animal is acting suspiciously following a bite incident, (unusually
aggressive or other symptoms that may be rabies or distemper) it may very
well be put down and tested. I would *not* make the assumption that the
skin wasn't broken in a bite incident. The break wouldn't necessarily be
visible.
If an animal (dog, cat or ferret) is indeed acting as if it *may be*rabid
(and especially if it was not current on vaccinations and/or had a recent
escape history which is commonly found in rabid ferret cases), it didn't
*appear* broken and the bite area was treated appropriately (which actually
means letting it *dry*, *not* washing it-the virus will not survive if it
dries out) the risk of infection even from an animal that is shedding the
virus in their saliva is relatively low.
But it's not low enough to risk a person's life over. They *might*
quarantine an animal whose behavior is suspicious if the person was going to
go through the rabies shots *anyway*, but if knowing was a deciding factor,
I'd bet the animal would be put down in a heartbeat. If the animal appears
to be behaving in a manner that is suggestive of rabies or other
neurological problem/unusually aggressive, that is the right thing to do.
The problem historically was that before the Compendium was changed, ferrets
who:
- were current on the FDA approved rabies vaccine,
- with NO KNOWN possibility of exposure,
- who appeared to be completely healthy,
would frequently be put down and tested in bite or scratch incidents, when
there was no good reason to think that they should have rabies.
It should be the exception these days, not the rule, but I haven't kept up.
If you post which area you are posting regarding (country/state/county/town)
that you believe has a law *requiring* a kill and test for ferrets involved
in bite incidents, I may be able to look into it further.
-Ilena Ayala
"swamp" <swamp92@> wrote in message
news:67dfd09tbci9uv94rtfu5ptrcsg9rm5rnj@4ax.com...
> On 21 Jun 2004 09:30:14 -0700, ferretface40@hotmail.com (Matthew
> Spaltro) wrote:
>
> >I have a question about the dumb law that states that ferrets must be
> >automaticly put to sleep if a bite report has been issued.
>
> If that's the law, it's a local one and you can challenge it.
>
> "6) MANAGEMENT OF ANIMALS THAT BITE HUMANS
>
> a) A healthy dog, cat, or ferret that bites a person should be
> confined and observed daily for 10 days; administration of rabies
> vaccine is not recommended during the observation period."
>
> http://www.avma.org/pubhlth/rabcont.asp
>
> The key is "healthy." If the ferret is "out-of-sorts" it will be
> euthanized.
>
> > What if the ferret bite does not break the skin.
>
> Doesn't matter. The concern is for the bitten, not the biter.
>
> >Will the animal still be put down?
>
> Yes. The only way to be sure an animal is *in*capable of shedding (not
> transmitting) rabies is a brain tissue sample.
>
> >For instance if a ferret is taken to the vet for a routine exam
> >meaning the animal is perfectly healthy and the vet or nurse gets
> >bitten but the bite does not break the skin will the ferret be put to
> >sleep?
>
> Rabies is an odd disease. You're perfectly healthy until the very end
> of its cycle, and then you become ill and die quickly. It's also
> completely treatable until you show symptoms, and then you're as good
> as dead.
>
> >What about if the ferret is sick and it is obvious and it bites the
> >nurse or vet but does not break the skin will it then be put to sleep?
>
> Rabies is invariably fatal, so the caution is understandable. Anyone
> who handles, sees, treats animals in NA or mainland Europe should be
> vaccinated.
>
> Ferrets have never transmitted the disease as far as we know, but the
> possibility is there. As a ferret owner, what it comes down to is your
> ability to convince your local PH official that your ferrets are
> healthy and that you're capable of watching them closely for 10 days
> to ensure they remain healthy. Ferrets don't last long after the virus
> reaches their saliva.
>
> -- swamp
>
> "Who me officer? What's a ferut. These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
|
|
|
| Kadiya |
This may be a really stupid question, but wouldn't it be easiest if
humans were vacinated against rabies also? Not only can you contract
rabbies via bite or scratch, it is possible to contract it thru
aerosol transmission.
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 17:22:54 -0400, "Ilena Ayala"
<ilena@compuserve.com> wrote:
>I'm just going to add here that the link swamp posted is the AMVA Compendium
>for Rabies Control. It is the *national* recommendations from which most
>states draw their procedures on handling bite incidents.
>
>The long and the short of it is that there is an approved rabies vaccine for
>ferrets. If the animal is vaccinated and *appears healthy*, it will most
>likely just be quarantined in a reported bite incident.
>
>If the animal is acting suspiciously following a bite incident, (unusually
>aggressive or other symptoms that may be rabies or distemper) it may very
>well be put down and tested. I would *not* make the assumption that the
>skin wasn't broken in a bite incident. The break wouldn't necessarily be
>visible.
>
>If an animal (dog, cat or ferret) is indeed acting as if it *may be*rabid
>(and especially if it was not current on vaccinations and/or had a recent
>escape history which is commonly found in rabid ferret cases), it didn't
>*appear* broken and the bite area was treated appropriately (which actually
>means letting it *dry*, *not* washing it-the virus will not survive if it
>dries out) the risk of infection even from an animal that is shedding the
>virus in their saliva is relatively low.
>
>But it's not low enough to risk a person's life over. They *might*
>quarantine an animal whose behavior is suspicious if the person was going to
>go through the rabies shots *anyway*, but if knowing was a deciding factor,
>I'd bet the animal would be put down in a heartbeat. If the animal appears
>to be behaving in a manner that is suggestive of rabies or other
>neurological problem/unusually aggressive, that is the right thing to do.
>
>The problem historically was that before the Compendium was changed, ferrets
>who:
>- were current on the FDA approved rabies vaccine,
>- with NO KNOWN possibility of exposure,
>- who appeared to be completely healthy,
>
>would frequently be put down and tested in bite or scratch incidents, when
>there was no good reason to think that they should have rabies.
>
>It should be the exception these days, not the rule, but I haven't kept up.
>If you post which area you are posting regarding (country/state/county/town)
>that you believe has a law *requiring* a kill and test for ferrets involved
>in bite incidents, I may be able to look into it further.
>
>-Ilena Ayala
>
>
>"swamp" <swamp92@> wrote in message
>news:67dfd09tbci9uv94rtfu5ptrcsg9rm5rnj@4ax.com...
>> On 21 Jun 2004 09:30:14 -0700, ferretface40@hotmail.com (Matthew
>> Spaltro) wrote:
>>
>> >I have a question about the dumb law that states that ferrets must be
>> >automaticly put to sleep if a bite report has been issued.
>>
>> If that's the law, it's a local one and you can challenge it.
>>
>> "6) MANAGEMENT OF ANIMALS THAT BITE HUMANS
>>
>> a) A healthy dog, cat, or ferret that bites a person should be
>> confined and observed daily for 10 days; administration of rabies
>> vaccine is not recommended during the observation period."
>>
>> http://www.avma.org/pubhlth/rabcont.asp
>>
>> The key is "healthy." If the ferret is "out-of-sorts" it will be
>> euthanized.
>>
>> > What if the ferret bite does not break the skin.
>>
>> Doesn't matter. The concern is for the bitten, not the biter.
>>
>> >Will the animal still be put down?
>>
>> Yes. The only way to be sure an animal is *in*capable of shedding (not
>> transmitting) rabies is a brain tissue sample.
>>
>> >For instance if a ferret is taken to the vet for a routine exam
>> >meaning the animal is perfectly healthy and the vet or nurse gets
>> >bitten but the bite does not break the skin will the ferret be put to
>> >sleep?
>>
>> Rabies is an odd disease. You're perfectly healthy until the very end
>> of its cycle, and then you become ill and die quickly. It's also
>> completely treatable until you show symptoms, and then you're as good
>> as dead.
>>
>> >What about if the ferret is sick and it is obvious and it bites the
>> >nurse or vet but does not break the skin will it then be put to sleep?
>>
>> Rabies is invariably fatal, so the caution is understandable. Anyone
>> who handles, sees, treats animals in NA or mainland Europe should be
>> vaccinated.
>>
>> Ferrets have never transmitted the disease as far as we know, but the
>> possibility is there. As a ferret owner, what it comes down to is your
>> ability to convince your local PH official that your ferrets are
>> healthy and that you're capable of watching them closely for 10 days
>> to ensure they remain healthy. Ferrets don't last long after the virus
>> reaches their saliva.
>>
>> -- swamp
>>
>> "Who me officer? What's a ferut. These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
|
|
|
| ZPL |
they have only been able to show aerosol possibility in the lab.
I looked into Rabies Vaccination - due to my job, I am vaccinated for
everything else, so why not? Why I chose not to:
1) Cost
2) If you are bitten or scratched, you have to go through a post-exposure
shot regime anyway. They are unsure of how much of a titer is needed to
fully fend off the virus.
3) If you have been pre-vaccinated, and have to undergo post-exposure shots,
the instance of vaccination reaction increases significantly.
"Kadiya" <kadiya@kadiya.net> wrote in message
news:jolkd0ltm5qqprfslnuq6t40pvlibhhope@4ax.com...
> This may be a really stupid question, but wouldn't it be easiest if
> humans were vacinated against rabies also? Not only can you contract
> rabbies via bite or scratch, it is possible to contract it thru
> aerosol transmission.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 17:22:54 -0400, "Ilena Ayala"
> <ilena@compuserve.com> wrote:
>
> >I'm just going to add here that the link swamp posted is the AMVA
Compendium
> >for Rabies Control. It is the *national* recommendations from which most
> >states draw their procedures on handling bite incidents.
> >
> >The long and the short of it is that there is an approved rabies vaccine
for
> >ferrets. If the animal is vaccinated and *appears healthy*, it will most
> >likely just be quarantined in a reported bite incident.
> >
> >If the animal is acting suspiciously following a bite incident,
(unusually
> >aggressive or other symptoms that may be rabies or distemper) it may very
> >well be put down and tested. I would *not* make the assumption that the
> >skin wasn't broken in a bite incident. The break wouldn't necessarily be
> >visible.
> >
> >If an animal (dog, cat or ferret) is indeed acting as if it *may be*rabid
> >(and especially if it was not current on vaccinations and/or had a recent
> >escape history which is commonly found in rabid ferret cases), it didn't
> >*appear* broken and the bite area was treated appropriately (which
actually
> >means letting it *dry*, *not* washing it-the virus will not survive if it
> >dries out) the risk of infection even from an animal that is shedding the
> >virus in their saliva is relatively low.
> >
> >But it's not low enough to risk a person's life over. They *might*
> >quarantine an animal whose behavior is suspicious if the person was going
to
> >go through the rabies shots *anyway*, but if knowing was a deciding
factor,
> >I'd bet the animal would be put down in a heartbeat. If the animal
appears
> >to be behaving in a manner that is suggestive of rabies or other
> >neurological problem/unusually aggressive, that is the right thing to do.
> >
> >The problem historically was that before the Compendium was changed,
ferrets
> >who:
> >- were current on the FDA approved rabies vaccine,
> >- with NO KNOWN possibility of exposure,
> >- who appeared to be completely healthy,
> >
> >would frequently be put down and tested in bite or scratch incidents,
when
> >there was no good reason to think that they should have rabies.
> >
> >It should be the exception these days, not the rule, but I haven't kept
up.
> >If you post which area you are posting regarding
(country/state/county/town)
> >that you believe has a law *requiring* a kill and test for ferrets
involved
> >in bite incidents, I may be able to look into it further.
> >
> >-Ilena Ayala
> >
> >
> >"swamp" <swamp92@> wrote in message
> >news:67dfd09tbci9uv94rtfu5ptrcsg9rm5rnj@4ax.com...
> >> On 21 Jun 2004 09:30:14 -0700, ferretface40@hotmail.com (Matthew
> >> Spaltro) wrote:
> >>
> >> >I have a question about the dumb law that states that ferrets must be
> >> >automaticly put to sleep if a bite report has been issued.
> >>
> >> If that's the law, it's a local one and you can challenge it.
> >>
> >> "6) MANAGEMENT OF ANIMALS THAT BITE HUMANS
> >>
> >> a) A healthy dog, cat, or ferret that bites a person should be
> >> confined and observed daily for 10 days; administration of rabies
> >> vaccine is not recommended during the observation period."
> >>
> >> http://www.avma.org/pubhlth/rabcont.asp
> >>
> >> The key is "healthy." If the ferret is "out-of-sorts" it will be
> >> euthanized.
> >>
> >> > What if the ferret bite does not break the skin.
> >>
> >> Doesn't matter. The concern is for the bitten, not the biter.
> >>
> >> >Will the animal still be put down?
> >>
> >> Yes. The only way to be sure an animal is *in*capable of shedding (not
> >> transmitting) rabies is a brain tissue sample.
> >>
> >> >For instance if a ferret is taken to the vet for a routine exam
> >> >meaning the animal is perfectly healthy and the vet or nurse gets
> >> >bitten but the bite does not break the skin will the ferret be put to
> >> >sleep?
> >>
> >> Rabies is an odd disease. You're perfectly healthy until the very end
> >> of its cycle, and then you become ill and die quickly. It's also
> >> completely treatable until you show symptoms, and then you're as good
> >> as dead.
> >>
> >> >What about if the ferret is sick and it is obvious and it bites the
> >> >nurse or vet but does not break the skin will it then be put to sleep?
> >>
> >> Rabies is invariably fatal, so the caution is understandable. Anyone
> >> who handles, sees, treats animals in NA or mainland Europe should be
> >> vaccinated.
> >>
> >> Ferrets have never transmitted the disease as far as we know, but the
> >> possibility is there. As a ferret owner, what it comes down to is your
> >> ability to convince your local PH official that your ferrets are
> >> healthy and that you're capable of watching them closely for 10 days
> >> to ensure they remain healthy. Ferrets don't last long after the virus
> >> reaches their saliva.
> >>
> >> -- swamp
> >>
> >> "Who me officer? What's a ferut. These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
>
|
|
|
| swamp |
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 09:29:37 -0500, "ZPL" <ZPL2@allegiance.tv> wrote:
>they have only been able to show aerosol possibility in the lab.
I'd have to look up the CDC reports, but I'm pretty sure a couple
cases of spelunkers in NC and KY were convincing if not confirming. No
recollection of bites, lesions appearing on the nases before death,
etc. Your office isn't in a cave of course...
>I looked into Rabies Vaccination - due to my job, I am vaccinated for
>everything else, so why not? Why I chose not to:
>1) Cost
Bad reason imo. The vac is $25.
>2) If you are bitten or scratched, you have to go through a post-exposure
>shot regime anyway. They are unsure of how much of a titer is needed to
>fully fend off the virus.
True, but if you're caring for animals it won't necessarily be the
obvious bite or scratch that gets you. If you're handling domesticated
animals I wouldn't sweat it either. If you're handling wild animals
I'd get my butt vaccinated pronto.
>3) If you have been pre-vaccinated, and have to undergo post-exposure shots,
>the instance of vaccination reaction increases significantly.
I didn't know that, but I guess it makes sense. The only people who've
survived rabies were vaccinated and the virus still caused systemic
damage.
-- swamp
"Who me officer? What's a ferut. These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
|
|
|
| Ilena Ayala |
"Kadiya" <kadiya@kadiya.net> wrote in message
news:jolkd0ltm5qqprfslnuq6t40pvlibhhope@4ax.com...
> This may be a really stupid question, but wouldn't it be easiest if
> humans were vacinated against rabies also? Not only can you contract
> rabbies via bite or scratch, it is possible to contract it thru
> aerosol transmission.
Very few people are actually at any significant risk for exposure to rabies.
Most people go their whole life without exposure. Those who are can opt to
get the vaccination, those who are not typically *don't*; they are treated
in case of exposure. It's not cost effective to routinely vaccinate humans
against rabies (or other diseases they are at low risk for exposure to).
The vaccination costs money and there is always a risk of adverse reaction.
It makes more sense to pick and choose who gets vaccinated.
Aerosol transmission is highly unusual; the only scenario I know of would be
a cave populated by many rabies infected bats; there are a few cases of
individuals who were believed to have been infected by breathing the
contaminated air. As a result, avid spelunkers (cavers) sometimes get
vaccinated. (I will note here too that the damp air often found in caves
would be conducive to keeping any airborne rabies virus particles viable
than they would be in a normal outdoor environment where they would tend to
dry out.)
Other examples of individuals in higher than normal risk categories:
Veterinarians and vet technicians, workers, animal control workers, wildlife
rehabilitators, people who work with rabies infected animals or materials
(i.e. in the NYS Wadsworth Rabies testing/research lab.)
The problem isn't that exposure is likely; it's that if it *does* occur,
medical workers want to make sure to *prevent* rabies, because if it isn't
stopped there, and the person develops the disease, they are toast. Once
they are symptomatic, it's basically incurable. A *very* few documented
people have survived, and 'survived' can include "still breathing, brain was
ravaged, brain is toast". If someone is believed to have the disease,
doctors can throw everything at it they have-they already know the person is
doomed. :(
Simply put:
1) There is little risk of exposure to the average person, so the average
person doesn't get vaccinated. High risk people get vaccinated.
2) In cases where exposure occurs, prompt post-exposure treatment can nearly
always prevent the disease.
3) If it isn't prevented, once a person is symptomatic, they are dead.
-Ilena Ayala
|
|
|
| ZPL |
> >I looked into Rabies Vaccination - due to my job, I am vaccinated for
> >everything else, so why not? Why I chose not to:
> >1) Cost
>
> Bad reason imo. The vac is $25.
I was quoted at least $600 for the series. One source thought up to $1200.
But, these were private sources. The Department does not offer vaccination.
> >2) If you are bitten or scratched, you have to go through a post-exposure
> >shot regime anyway. They are unsure of how much of a titer is needed to
> >fully fend off the virus.
>
> True, but if you're caring for animals it won't necessarily be the
> obvious bite or scratch that gets you. If you're handling domesticated
> animals I wouldn't sweat it either. If you're handling wild animals
> I'd get my butt vaccinated pronto
Don't work in the Animal Care Field. I work for the ME's Office. The
counties I work in have the highest rabies census in the State, also the
lowest vaccination rate for pets and stock. Forget unknown medical history
and disease of unknown origin - I hate searching through dense undergrowth
and creekbeds for remains. Never know what you'll come across.
Talked with the State Epidemiology guy. He does suggest the series for
spelunkers, and for most Animal Control or care. But, I felt my
conversation with him was - well - less than satisfying. He never got the
concept of the job. He could only suggest Vet organizations as a supplier.
Would be interested in any supplements that you may have.
|
|
|
| ZPL |
> Um... I'm afraid to ask, but remains of what?
>
> As you probably know, rabies has been widely eradicated among domestic
> animals in NA and Europe. The largest reservoir in the US is
> silver-tailed bats, then raccoons and skunks. In human rabies cases
> everyone from family to hospital personnel are administered PEP.
Well, you know REMAINS. Scattered, animalized, partial remains. Always
scavengers around - couple that with a water source and fights over "choice
bits" and you usually have to scare some things off. One of the great
things about SE Oklahoma is the wildlife.
I know about the skunks and 'coons, what surprised me was the rabies census
for bovines and equines. We have had about 1 or 2 feline/canine cases in
each of my counties. But, that is par for the sticks. The counts would be
higher, but in order to get a count, something has to be submitted.
I'll keep looking into the possibility. Appreciate the info.
"swamp" <swamp92@> wrote in message
news:6jcpd0tbf1nuvs0ja34lukvd0a0njqeh2j@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:06:00 -0500, "ZPL" <ZPL2@allegiance.tv> wrote:
>
> >> >I looked into Rabies Vaccination - due to my job, I am vaccinated for
> >> >everything else, so why not? Why I chose not to:
> >> >1) Cost
> >>
> >> Bad reason imo. The vac is $25.
> >
> >I was quoted at least $600 for the series. One source thought up to
$1200.
> >But, these were private sources. The Department does not offer
vaccination
>
> Hmm, I'm guessing that's for PEP or PET (post exposure
> prophylaxis/treatment). One of the concerns in rabies cases is the
> cost of treating everyone who was, and sometimes wasn't, exposed. A
> kitten in a NJ(?) pet store of all places tested positive for rabies.
> A woman who'd walked by the store and seen the kitten *thru the glass
> storefront* demanded PEP. iirc, some 100 other people did also and it
> wound up costing the state $120,000. The "pre-exposure" vaccine is
> considerably less, in part because it's federally subsidized.
>
> >> >2) If you are bitten or scratched, you have to go through a
post-exposure
> >> >shot regime anyway. They are unsure of how much of a titer is needed
to
> >> >fully fend off the virus.
> >>
> >> True, but if you're caring for animals it won't necessarily be the
> >> obvious bite or scratch that gets you. If you're handling domesticated
> >> animals I wouldn't sweat it either. If you're handling wild animals
> >> I'd get my butt vaccinated pronto
> >
> >Don't work in the Animal Care Field. I work for the ME's Office. The
> >counties I work in have the highest rabies census in the State, also the
> >lowest vaccination rate for pets and stock. Forget unknown medical
history
> >and disease of unknown origin - I hate searching through dense
undergrowth
> >and creekbeds for remains. Never know what you'll come across.
>
> Um... I'm afraid to ask, but remains of what?
>
> As you probably know, rabies has been widely eradicated among domestic
> animals in NA and Europe. The largest reservoir in the US is
> silver-tailed bats, then raccoons and skunks. In human rabies cases
> everyone from family to hospital personnel are administered PEP.
>
> >Talked with the State Epidemiology guy. He does suggest the series for
> >spelunkers, and for most Animal Control or care. But, I felt my
> >conversation with him was - well - less than satisfying. He never got
the
> >concept of the job. He could only suggest Vet organizations as a
supplier.
> >Would be interested in any supplements that you may have.
>
> I'd have to look it up, to tell the truth. I just remember a CDC/AVMA
> recommendation of inoculation and tri-annual boosters for people who
> see or treat wild animals on a consistent basis. I don't believe it's
> a series or involves HGG, and less than $25/year. No idea on reaction
> rates.
>
> -- swamp
>
> "Who me officer? What's a ferut. These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
|
|
|
| Ilena Ayala |
Did you talk to your health insurance company? Or your job? If you explain
your concerns to the insurance company, they may ok the coverage. Also,
IIRC, you can have the vaccine sent to whatever dr will administer the
shots.
Check the compendium link for the manufacturers of vaccines ok'd for humans
and then go from there; holler here or contact the mrf if you need help
figuring out how to get the vaccine to a dr.
-Ilena Ayala
"ZPL" <ZPL2@allegiance.tv> wrote in message
news:40daed6e$0$19882$2c56edd9@news.cablerocket.com...
> they have only been able to show aerosol possibility in the lab.
>
> I looked into Rabies Vaccination - due to my job, I am vaccinated for
> everything else, so why not? Why I chose not to:
> 1) Cost
> 2) If you are bitten or scratched, you have to go through a post-exposure
> shot regime anyway. They are unsure of how much of a titer is needed to
> fully fend off the virus.
> 3) If you have been pre-vaccinated, and have to undergo post-exposure
shots,
> the instance of vaccination reaction increases significantly.
>
> "Kadiya" <kadiya@kadiya.net> wrote in message
> news:jolkd0ltm5qqprfslnuq6t40pvlibhhope@4ax.com...
> > This may be a really stupid question, but wouldn't it be easiest if
> > humans were vacinated against rabies also? Not only can you contract
> > rabbies via bite or scratch, it is possible to contract it thru
> > aerosol transmission.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 17:22:54 -0400, "Ilena Ayala"
> > <ilena@compuserve.com> wrote:
> >
> > >I'm just going to add here that the link swamp posted is the AMVA
> Compendium
> > >for Rabies Control. It is the *national* recommendations from which
most
> > >states draw their procedures on handling bite incidents.
> > >
> > >The long and the short of it is that there is an approved rabies
vaccine
> for
> > >ferrets. If the animal is vaccinated and *appears healthy*, it will
most
> > >likely just be quarantined in a reported bite incident.
> > >
> > >If the animal is acting suspiciously following a bite incident,
> (unusually
> > >aggressive or other symptoms that may be rabies or distemper) it may
very
> > >well be put down and tested. I would *not* make the assumption that
the
> > >skin wasn't broken in a bite incident. The break wouldn't necessarily
be
> > >visible.
> > >
> > >If an animal (dog, cat or ferret) is indeed acting as if it *may
be*rabid
> > >(and especially if it was not current on vaccinations and/or had a
recent
> > >escape history which is commonly found in rabid ferret cases), it
didn't
> > >*appear* broken and the bite area was treated appropriately (which
> actually
> > >means letting it *dry*, *not* washing it-the virus will not survive if
it
> > >dries out) the risk of infection even from an animal that is shedding
the
> > >virus in their saliva is relatively low.
> > >
> > >But it's not low enough to risk a person's life over. They *might*
> > >quarantine an animal whose behavior is suspicious if the person was
going
> to
> > >go through the rabies shots *anyway*, but if knowing was a deciding
> factor,
> > >I'd bet the animal would be put down in a heartbeat. If the animal
> appears
> > >to be behaving in a manner that is suggestive of rabies or other
> > >neurological problem/unusually aggressive, that is the right thing to
do.
> > >
> > >The problem historically was that before the Compendium was changed,
> ferrets
> > >who:
> > >- were current on the FDA approved rabies vaccine,
> > >- with NO KNOWN possibility of exposure,
> > >- who appeared to be completely healthy,
> > >
> > >would frequently be put down and tested in bite or scratch incidents,
> when
> > >there was no good reason to think that they should have rabies.
> > >
> > >It should be the exception these days, not the rule, but I haven't kept
> up.
> > >If you post which area you are posting regarding
> (country/state/county/town)
> > >that you believe has a law *requiring* a kill and test for ferrets
> involved
> > >in bite incidents, I may be able to look into it further.
> > >
> > >-Ilena Ayala
> > >
> > >
> > >"swamp" <swamp92@> wrote in message
> > >news:67dfd09tbci9uv94rtfu5ptrcsg9rm5rnj@4ax.com...
> > >> On 21 Jun 2004 09:30:14 -0700, ferretface40@hotmail.com (Matthew
> > >> Spaltro) wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >I have a question about the dumb law that states that ferrets must
be
> > >> >automaticly put to sleep if a bite report has been issued.
> > >>
> > >> If that's the law, it's a local one and you can challenge it.
> > >>
> > >> "6) MANAGEMENT OF ANIMALS THAT BITE HUMANS
> > >>
> > >> a) A healthy dog, cat, or ferret that bites a person should be
> > >> confined and observed daily for 10 days; administration of rabies
> > >> vaccine is not recommended during the observation period."
> > >>
> > >> http://www.avma.org/pubhlth/rabcont.asp
> > >>
> > >> The key is "healthy." If the ferret is "out-of-sorts" it will be
> > >> euthanized.
> > >>
> > >> > What if the ferret bite does not break the skin.
> > >>
> > >> Doesn't matter. The concern is for the bitten, not the biter.
> > >>
> > >> >Will the animal still be put down?
> > >>
> > >> Yes. The only way to be sure an animal is *in*capable of shedding
(not
> > >> transmitting) rabies is a brain tissue sample.
> > >>
> > >> >For instance if a ferret is taken to the vet for a routine exam
> > >> >meaning the animal is perfectly healthy and the vet or nurse gets
> > >> >bitten but the bite does not break the skin will the ferret be put
to
> > >> >sleep?
> > >>
> > >> Rabies is an odd disease. You're perfectly healthy until the very end
> > >> of its cycle, and then you become ill and die quickly. It's also
> > >> completely treatable until you show symptoms, and then you're as good
> > >> as dead.
> > >>
> > >> >What about if the ferret is sick and it is obvious and it bites the
> > >> >nurse or vet but does not break the skin will it then be put to
sleep?
> > >>
> > >> Rabies is invariably fatal, so the caution is understandable. Anyone
> > >> who handles, sees, treats animals in NA or mainland Europe should be
> > >> vaccinated.
> > >>
> > >> Ferrets have never transmitted the disease as far as we know, but the
> > >> possibility is there. As a ferret owner, what it comes down to is
your
> > >> ability to convince your local PH official that your ferrets are
> > >> healthy and that you're capable of watching them closely for 10 days
> > >> to ensure they remain healthy. Ferrets don't last long after the
virus
> > >> reaches their saliva.
> > >>
> > >> -- swamp
> > >>
> > >> "Who me officer? What's a ferut. These guys?? No, they're Polish
cats."
> >
>
>
|
|
|
| ZPL |
Still weighing it. I can guarantee that insurance will NOT pay for it. The
State will not pay for it, either. Will keep collecting info. Thanks!
"Ilena Ayala" <ilena@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:cbj0b8$orb$2@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> Did you talk to your health insurance company? Or your job? If you
explain
> your concerns to the insurance company, they may ok the coverage. Also,
> IIRC, you can have the vaccine sent to whatever dr will administer the
> shots.
>
> Check the compendium link for the manufacturers of vaccines ok'd for
humans
> and then go from there; holler here or contact the mrf if you need help
> figuring out how to get the vaccine to a dr.
>
> -Ilena Ayala
>
> "ZPL" <ZPL2@allegiance.tv> wrote in message
> news:40daed6e$0$19882$2c56edd9@news.cablerocket.com...
> > they have only been able to show aerosol possibility in the lab.
> >
> > I looked into Rabies Vaccination - due to my job, I am vaccinated for
> > everything else, so why not? Why I chose not to:
> > 1) Cost
> > 2) If you are bitten or scratched, you have to go through a
post-exposure
> > shot regime anyway. They are unsure of how much of a titer is needed to
> > fully fend off the virus.
> > 3) If you have been pre-vaccinated, and have to undergo post-exposure
> shots,
> > the instance of vaccination reaction increases significantly.
> >
> > "Kadiya" <kadiya@kadiya.net> wrote in message
> > news:jolkd0ltm5qqprfslnuq6t40pvlibhhope@4ax.com...
> > > This may be a really stupid question, but wouldn't it be easiest if
> > > humans were vacinated against rabies also? Not only can you contract
> > > rabbies via bite or scratch, it is possible to contract it thru
> > > aerosol transmission.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 17:22:54 -0400, "Ilena Ayala"
> > > <ilena@compuserve.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >I'm just going to add here that the link swamp posted is the AMVA
> > Compendium
> > > >for Rabies Control. It is the *national* recommendations from which
> most
> > > >states draw their procedures on handling bite incidents.
> > > >
> > > >The long and the short of it is that there is an approved rabies
> vaccine
> > for
> > > >ferrets. If the animal is vaccinated and *appears healthy*, it will
> most
> > > >likely just be quarantined in a reported bite incident.
> > > >
> > > >If the animal is acting suspiciously following a bite incident,
> > (unusually
> > > >aggressive or other symptoms that may be rabies or distemper) it may
> very
> > > >well be put down and tested. I would *not* make the assumption that
> the
> > > >skin wasn't broken in a bite incident. The break wouldn't
necessarily
> be
> > > >visible.
> > > >
> > > >If an animal (dog, cat or ferret) is indeed acting as if it *may
> be*rabid
> > > >(and especially if it was not current on vaccinations and/or had a
> recent
> > > >escape history which is commonly found in rabid ferret cases), it
> didn't
> > > >*appear* broken and the bite area was treated appropriately (which
> > actually
> > > >means letting it *dry*, *not* washing it-the virus will not survive
if
> it
> > > >dries out) the risk of infection even from an animal that is shedding
> the
> > > >virus in their saliva is relatively low.
> > > >
> > > >But it's not low enough to risk a person's life over. They *might*
> > > >quarantine an animal whose behavior is suspicious if the person was
> going
> > to
> > > >go through the rabies shots *anyway*, but if knowing was a deciding
> > factor,
> > > >I'd bet the animal would be put down in a heartbeat. If the animal
> > appears
> > > >to be behaving in a manner that is suggestive of rabies or other
> > > >neurological problem/unusually aggressive, that is the right thing to
> do.
> > > >
> > > >The problem historically was that before the Compendium was changed,
> > ferrets
> > > >who:
> > > >- were current on the FDA approved rabies vaccine,
> > > >- with NO KNOWN possibility of exposure,
> > > >- who appeared to be completely healthy,
> > > >
> > > >would frequently be put down and tested in bite or scratch incidents,
> > when
> > > >there was no good reason to think that they should have rabies.
> > > >
> > > >It should be the exception these days, not the rule, but I haven't
kept
> > up.
> > > >If you post which area you are posting regarding
> > (country/state/county/town)
> > > >that you believe has a law *requiring* a kill and test for ferrets
> > involved
> > > >in bite incidents, I may be able to look into it further.
> > > >
> > > >-Ilena Ayala
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >"swamp" <swamp92@> wrote in message
> > > >news:67dfd09tbci9uv94rtfu5ptrcsg9rm5rnj@4ax.com...
> > > >> On 21 Jun 2004 09:30:14 -0700, ferretface40@hotmail.com (Matthew
> > > >> Spaltro) wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> >I have a question about the dumb law that states that ferrets must
> be
> > > >> >automaticly put to sleep if a bite report has been issued.
> > > >>
> > > >> If that's the law, it's a local one and you can challenge it.
> > > >>
> > > >> "6) MANAGEMENT OF ANIMALS THAT BITE HUMANS
> > > >>
> > > >> a) A healthy dog, cat, or ferret that bites a person should be
> > > >> confined and observed daily for 10 days; administration of rabies
> > > >> vaccine is not recommended during the observation period."
> > > >>
> > > >> http://www.avma.org/pubhlth/rabcont.asp
> > > >>
> > > >> The key is "healthy." If the ferret is "out-of-sorts" it will be
> > > >> euthanized.
> > > >>
> > > >> > What if the ferret bite does not break the skin.
> > > >>
> > > >> Doesn't matter. The concern is for the bitten, not the biter.
> > > >>
> > > >> >Will the animal still be put down?
> > > >>
> > > >> Yes. The only way to be sure an animal is *in*capable of shedding
> (not
> > > >> transmitting) rabies is a brain tissue sample.
> > > >>
> > > >> >For instance if a ferret is taken to the vet for a routine exam
> > > >> >meaning the animal is perfectly healthy and the vet or nurse gets
> > > >> >bitten but the bite does not break the skin will the ferret be put
> to
> > > >> >sleep?
> > > >>
> > > >> Rabies is an odd disease. You're perfectly healthy until the very
end
> > > >> of its cycle, and then you become ill and die quickly. It's also
> > > >> completely treatable until you show symptoms, and then you're as
good
> > > >> as dead.
> > > >>
> > > >> >What about if the ferret is sick and it is obvious and it bites
the
> > > >> >nurse or vet but does not break the skin will it then be put to
> sleep?
> > > >>
> > > >> Rabies is invariably fatal, so the caution is understandable.
Anyone
> > > >> who handles, sees, treats animals in NA or mainland Europe should
be
> > > >> vaccinated.
> > > >>
> > > >> Ferrets have never transmitted the disease as far as we know, but
the
> > > >> possibility is there. As a ferret owner, what it comes down to is
> your
> > > >> ability to convince your local PH official that your ferrets are
> > > >> healthy and that you're capable of watching them closely for 10
days
> > > >> to ensure they remain healthy. Ferrets don't last long after the
> virus
> > > >> reaches their saliva.
> > > >>
> > > >> -- swamp
> > > >>
> > > >> "Who me officer? What's a ferut. These guys?? No, they're Polish
> cats."
> > >
> >
> >
>
|
|
|
| Robyn |
> things about SE Oklahoma is the wildlife.
You didn't happen to work for Wewoka PD a few years ago, did you?
|
|
|
| ZPL |
No. Never worked for PD. I had a work partner that did work for the Wewoka
PD before he was hired (and the n fired) from the MEs Office.
"Robyn" <robynholmes@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:290620041924126465%robynholmes@sbcglobal.net...
> > things about SE Oklahoma is the wildlife.
>
> You didn't happen to work for Wewoka PD a few years ago, did you?
|
|
|
| Robyn |
That must be who I'm thinking of (I was reserving part of the time he
was there). Good to see another Okie on here!
In article <40e22990$0$19874$2c56edd9@news.cablerocket.com>, ZPL
<ZPL2@allegiance.tv> wrote:
> No. Never worked for PD. I had a work partner that did work for the Wewoka
> PD before he was hired (and the n fired) from the MEs Office.
>
> "Robyn" <robynholmes@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:290620041924126465%robynholmes@sbcglobal.net...
> > > things about SE Oklahoma is the wildlife.
> >
> > You didn't happen to work for Wewoka PD a few years ago, did you?
>
>
|
|
|
| Lisa The Ferret Haven By the Sea |
>Still weighing it. I can guarantee that insurance will NOT pay for it. The
>State will not pay for it, either. Will keep collecting info. Thanks!
He's right. The PEP that I have (Pre exposure prophylaxis) was a cost entirely
out of my pocket. Some vets will cover it for the techs, etc but most of the
time if you want it, you pay for it.
I had mine done a number of years ago and it was $500. Prolly should get my
titers tested but I don't believe the rabies threat from ferrets is that high.
As far as aerosol transmission of rabies - there have been a couple cases -
spelunkers and the bat variants so it is possible.
Lisa Leidig, Head Ferret
The Ferret Haven "By-the-Sea"
http: www.ferrethaven.org
Want to help The Ferret Haven By-the-Sea? Register at iGive.com
by cutting and pasting this link:
http://www.iGive.com/html/ssi.cfm?CID=1236&MID=854
|
|
|
| swamp |
On 06 Jul 2004 16:19:15 GMT, fhbythesea@aol.comferts4me (Lisa The
Ferret Haven By the Sea) wrote:
>>Still weighing it. I can guarantee that insurance will NOT pay for it. The
>>State will not pay for it, either. Will keep collecting info. Thanks!
>
>He's right. The PEP that I have (Pre exposure prophylaxis) was a cost entirely
>out of my pocket. Some vets will cover it for the techs, etc but most of the
>time if you want it, you pay for it.
Actually, I'm *wrong* if what you say is accurate. I thought there was
a cheap, federally subsidized vaccine for people who deal w/ wild
animals. Just a quick $25 jab in the butt and off you go for 3 years.
ZPL's info may be correct in 2004. Time for a call to the CDC...
>I had mine done a number of years ago and it was $500. Prolly should get my
>titers tested but I don't believe the rabies threat from ferrets is that high.
The rabies threat from ferrets is extremely low. Can't get lower than
0. I'll have to go back to the CDC reports and confirm the human
rabies vaccine tho. iirc, human wildlife workers were recommended a
cheap vaccine. Could be wrong. Wildlife workers exposed to rabid
animals and family and hospital members exposed to a human rabies
victim were suggested PEP (~$600), and anyone bitten by a rabid animal
was suggested PET, a series of HGG sera and attenuated virus shots,
$1200-2300 depending on location. The degree and cost of treatment
also goes up w/ the severity and location of bite, and wheither the
animal is actively shedding the virus in its saliva.
Note: No one who's followed NIH's PET or PEP protocol has contracted
rabies.
>As far as aerosol transmission of rabies - there have been a couple cases -
>spelunkers and the bat variants so it is possible.
I'd say"likely", but otherwise agreed. I assume you all read about the
organ transplant folks who died. On CNN.com and now the CDC's website.
Rabies is such a rare disease in the US they didn't screen the donor
for it. What do you do..?
>Lisa Leidig, Head Ferret
Like Jeanne C, good to see you posting Lisa,
-- swamp
"Who me officer? What's a ferut. These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
|
|
|
| Lisa The Ferret Haven By the Sea |
> I thought there was
>a cheap, federally subsidized vaccine for people who deal w/ wild
>animals. Just a quick $25 jab in the butt and off you go for 3 years.
I dunno about that Swamp - I wasn't working as a wildlife rehabber at the time
and the Virginia Beach Health Dept recommended it to me since I do take in
stray ferrets. It wasn't bad - 3 shots but the cost is prohibitive. IIRC,
anyone working with wild animals that are vectors for rabies must have these
shots and have titers done in order to maintain the rehab license.
>The rabies threat from ferrets is extremely low. Can't get lower than
>0.
Oh I know that and you know that - but the Health dept goes by the adage "If it
has fur, it can get rabies".
>I assume you all read about the
>organ transplant folks who died. On CNN.com and now the CDC's website.
>Rabies is such a rare disease in the US they didn't screen the donor
>for it. What do you do.
Yeah I cut out the article. Poor souls - they would have died without the
transplant - and instead they died *because* of it. I think the first clue
should have been when the donor died of a "brain hemorrhage".
>Like Jeanne C, good to see you posting Lisa,
Thanks Swamp. Been away for a while - bad times at the shelter (we lost 3 older
kids in 3 weeks). Thats the way it goes I guess but still they are missed.
Lisa Leidig, Head Ferret
The Ferret Haven "By-the-Sea"
http: www.ferrethaven.org
Want to help The Ferret Haven By-the-Sea? Register at iGive.com
by cutting and pasting this link:
http://www.iGive.com/html/ssi.cfm?CID=1236&MID=854
|
|
|
| swamp |
On 07 Jul 2004 10:46:41 GMT, fhbythesea@aol.comferts4me (Lisa The
Ferret Haven By the Sea) wrote:
swamp wrote:
>> I thought there was
>>a cheap, federally subsidized vaccine for people who deal w/ wild
>>animals. Just a quick $25 jab in the butt and off you go for 3 years.
>
>I dunno about that Swamp - I wasn't working as a wildlife rehabber at the time
>and the Virginia Beach Health Dept recommended it to me since I do take in
>stray ferrets. It wasn't bad - 3 shots but the cost is prohibitive. IIRC,
>anyone working with wild animals that are vectors for rabies must have these
>shots and have titers done in order to maintain the rehab license.
I checked w/ the CDC for the procedure, and the Orange County
Immunization clinic for the price, and I was apparently laboring under
a misapprehension. It is indeed a series of 3 shots 10-14 days apart.
OCI charges $120 for each shot, $29 for each office visit, and
recommends a baseline titer be done before and 30 days after the last
treatment at $79 a pop. All said and done 4 office visits, 5
puncturings, and about a $700 wallet beating.
I was wrong and you and ZPL were right. My mistake.
-- swamp
"Who me officer? What's a ferut. These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
|
|
|
| ZPL |
No problem. Although, it might have made for a nice long extended vacation
to travel where ever that deal was offered (using the gazillion vacation
hours I have saved up.).
"swamp" <swamp92@> wrote in message
news:a06pe05r303f518p8a58mqae5a5ft20c18@4ax.com...
> On 07 Jul 2004 10:46:41 GMT, fhbythesea@aol.comferts4me (Lisa The
> Ferret Haven By the Sea) wrote:
>
> swamp wrote:
>
> >> I thought there was
> >>a cheap, federally subsidized vaccine for people who deal w/ wild
> >>animals. Just a quick $25 jab in the butt and off you go for 3 years.
> >
> >I dunno about that Swamp - I wasn't working as a wildlife rehabber at the
time
> >and the Virginia Beach Health Dept recommended it to me since I do take
in
> >stray ferrets. It wasn't bad - 3 shots but the cost is prohibitive. IIRC,
> >anyone working with wild animals that are vectors for rabies must have
these
> >shots and have titers done in order to maintain the rehab license.
>
> I checked w/ the CDC for the procedure, and the Orange County
> Immunization clinic for the price, and I was apparently laboring under
> a misapprehension. It is indeed a series of 3 shots 10-14 days apart.
> OCI charges $120 for each shot, $29 for each office visit, and
> recommends a baseline titer be done before and 30 days after the last
> treatment at $79 a pop. All said and done 4 office visits, 5
> puncturings, and about a $700 wallet beating.
>
> I was wrong and you and ZPL were right. My mistake.
>
> -- swamp
>
> "Who me officer? What's a ferut. These guys?? No, they're Polish cats."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
