| High triglycerides - CLICK HERE for the Pet Manual Forum Home Page |
| Debbie Cusick |
Hi,
My three dogs are all getting older now (they are 8, 9 and 13) and my vet
recommended that they get a complete blood screening to check for any
potential problems. It seemed a good idea as the 8-year-old, especially,
seems to have health problems - she is very obese despite being kept on a
strict diet (she is a 50+ pound sheltie, even though she gets the same
amount of food daily as my 24 pound sheltie), and had awful skins problems,
major hair loss, etc. The two older dogs (9-year-old sheltie and 13-year-old
mutt) both seem pretty healthy. They both are active, alert, have excellent
appetites but are slender and fit, and both love to race around like
puppies. I feed them all Nutro Lamb and Rice diet, and have for years, and
it seems to agree with all of them.
So imagine my shock when the results came back, and Willow (the fat sheltie)
had mostly normal readings, but Merlin and Maggie (the two older but
seemingly healthier dogs) came back with triglyceride readings off the
charts. The vet said that a value of 290 was the max normal number for dogs,
and Maggie had a triglyceride reading of 950! And Merlin's reading was even
worse, his was 1880!!
The vet's recommendation was to put them on a diet of Science Diet i/d,
which he says his own dog has been on for the last 8 years for some other
health condition.
Well, to be honest, I've never had a very good opinion of Science Diet. For
one thing it seems to use corn as a chief ingredient, as well as animal
by-products - and most of the reading I've done indicates that corn is a
major allergen for dogs, and a "good" diet for dogs is one that avoids both
corn and wheat. Nutro lamb and rice has filled the bill nicely, and they
have eaten it most of their lives - but it is obviously not helping here.
The blood test was a fasting test so the results should not be too skewed.
I've tried to do some research on this condition on the internet, but not
found anything really too useful yet. One site said the dog should be put on
a low-fat diet with no more than 8-12% fat content. Well the Nutro they
currently eat is 12% fat, so within that guideline, yet their numbers are
still off the charts.
I looked up the nutritional analysis for the Science Diet i/d - and it is 9%
fat, so a bit lower - but the list of ingredients starts out: "Corn meal,
brewers rice, dried egg product, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal"
- Corn meal!
- Chicken by-products!
- Corn gluten meal!
All the sort of things I have tried to avoid giving to my dogs. Of course I
look at the Nutro web site and they talk about how their food is good for a
dog's skin, yet Willow has the most horrible skin and dandruffy-type flakes
I've even seen on a dog, despite a life-long Nutro diet, so I know you can't
believe everything your read. But in general I've liked the Nutro products.
The Science Diet i/d certainly does not seem to contain any "magic" medical
ingredients, yet it can be purchased only through a vet, and probably at a
high price to boot.
I've been thinking about switching to Nutro Natural Choice Lite - which I
had never considered before since two of my dogs are skinny and active, but
they are the two with high triglycerides, and what little I've read says a
low-fat diet is key. Neither of them seem to have any sort of health
problems other than these way-out numbers.
But does anyone have any other suggestions? Whatever I feed them has to be
something not too hard to find and buy. Or does it seem like dietary change
will do some good here? I mean these numbers are not a little elevated, they
are *way* elevated. When I was researching I checked this group via
groups.google.com, and found some posts in the archives from folks worried
because their dogs had triglyceride readings of 375, and 500. Heck, I'd be
thrilled to death if my dogs has those sorts of numbers.
--
Debbie
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| culprit |
"Debbie Cusick" <dacusicknospam@ba-dsg.net> wrote in message
news:2KJ0d.207$W73.155@trndny03...
> Hi,
> My three dogs are all getting older now (they are 8, 9 and 13) and my vet
> recommended that they get a complete blood screening to check for any
> potential problems. It seemed a good idea as the 8-year-old, especially,
> seems to have health problems - she is very obese despite being kept on a
> strict diet (she is a 50+ pound sheltie, even though she gets the same
> amount of food daily as my 24 pound sheltie), and had awful skins
> problems, major hair loss, etc.
i don't know anything about triglycerides in dogs (sorry about that), and i
was never one to recommend science diet.
but...
the symptoms you describe for your 8 year old sound a lot like an
underactive thyroid problem. i'd recommend having your vet test for that.
they're pretty easy to treat once you find them, and your dog will be much
happier for it.
-kelly
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| Marshall Dermer |
In article <2KJ0d.207$W73.155@trndny03> "Debbie Cusick" <scall0way@yahoo.com.dropthis> writes:
}The vet's recommendation was to put them on a diet of Science Diet i/d,
}which he says his own dog has been on for the last 8 years for some other
}health condition.
}
}Well, to be honest, I've never had a very good opinion of Science Diet. For
}one thing it seems to use corn as a chief ingredient, as well as animal
}by-products - and most of the reading I've done indicates that corn is a
}major allergen for dogs, and a "good" diet for dogs is one that avoids both
}corn and wheat.
Corn is only a problem if your dog is allergic to it!
I'm allergic to ragweed; my wife is not. I'm taking antihistamines;
my wife is not.
}a low-fat diet with no more than 8-12% fat content. Well the Nutro they
}currently eat is 12% fat, so within that guideline, yet their numbers are
}still off the charts.
}
}I looked up the nutritional analysis for the Science Diet i/d - and it is 9%
}fat, so a bit lower - but the list of ingredients starts out: "Corn meal,
}brewers rice, dried egg product, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal"
}- Corn meal!
}- Chicken by-products!
}- Corn gluten meal!
Once again, corn is only a problem if your dog is allergic to corn.
}
}I've been thinking about switching to Nutro Natural Choice Lite - which I
}had never considered before since two of my dogs are skinny and active, but
}they are the two with high triglycerides, and what little I've read says a
}low-fat diet is key. Neither of them seem to have any sort of health
}problems other than these way-out numbers.
Yes, low fat diets are what is recommended here:
http://www.weir.net/~lglass/canine-hyperlipidemia.htm
--Marshall
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| Debbie Cusick |
culprit wrote:
>
> the symptoms you describe for your 8 year old sound a lot like an
> underactive thyroid problem. i'd recommend having your vet test for
> that. they're pretty easy to treat once you find them,
Yes, my 8-year-old *does* have an underactive thyroid problem. She has been
on thyroid pills foo several years now - and all subsequent tests show her
thyroid to be in the normal range with the pills, but the symptoms do not
abate at all! In fact, with this recent round of tests, her thyroid number
was the highest of all three, well in the normal range. The 9-year-old had
normal thyroid but the very bottom of the normal range, the 13-year-old had
very low thyroid, below normal. Neither of the older dogs have any symptoms
of thyroid problems.
--
Debbie
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| Debbie Cusick |
Marshall Dermer wrote:
>
> Corn is only a problem if your dog is allergic to it!
>
> I'm allergic to ragweed; my wife is not. I'm taking antihistamines;
> my wife is not.
Agreed, but much of the reading I've done indicated *most* dogs are allergic
to corn, but it is so prevalent in food, and the symptoms so subtle, that
most people don't realize their dogs are having a problem. In the same way,
I've read that corn and wheat are extremely common allergens for humans
too - but that since they occur in probably 90+% of the foods we eat, people
don't realize how many of their niggling little symptoms are caused by them,
and just take them as a normal part of life, of growing old. I avoid all
corn and wheat products myself, and I can't tell you what an improved
quality of life it has given me. For years I thought I was getting old and
arthritic, so stiff and sore when I woke up in the morning that I could
barely crawl out of bed. With corn and wheat out of my diet those symptoms
have vanished and I can leap right up and feel fine. All sorts of other
weird problems vanished too, that return if I eat some of the above food.
These three dogs, in general, have had the best health and energy of any
dogs I've ever owned, and I'd like to keep it that way as best I can.
--
Debbie
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| Marshall Dermer |
In article <zSX0d.843$Tg7.331@trndny05> "Debbie Cusick" <scall0way@yahoo.com.dropthis> writes:
>Marshall Dermer wrote:
>>
>> Corn is only a problem if your dog is allergic to it!
>
>Agreed, but much of the reading I've done indicated *most* dogs are allergic
>to corn, but it is so prevalent in food, and the symptoms so subtle, that
>most people don't realize their dogs are having a problem.
>Debbie
We always must face this problem: What is true for the
aggregate need not be true for the individual. To be sure
what we know in aggregate may help us with an individual.
The only way to know whether X is good or bad for an
individual is to test it with the individual. When you
consider such a test you also would have to specify some
criterion measure, a dose, and administer the dose in the
context of other variables.
If you do not want to give your dog corn-based products
that is fine but I wonder a bit about how you reached
this decision.
My dog is doing just fine on a diet whose major
ingredients are cow peas and brown rice. But his
major source of fat is flaxseed oil. Every one
speaks of the virtues of flaxseed oil with
respect to allergies and joint diseases. But perhaps
flaxseed oil achieves these effects by suppressing
the immune system. What are the long-term implications
of having a suppressed immune system for a criterion
like cancer?
Fifty years ago, we might have simply accepted the
bad health and early death of our pets. Now that
we have a better understanding of the variables
that determine health we find ourselves worrying
about adjusting the variables!
Best wishes to you and your beloved canine friends,
--Marshall
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| GAUBSTER2 |
>From: "Debbie Cusick" dacusicknospam@ba-dsg.net
>It seemed a good idea as the 8-year-old, especially,
>seems to have health problems - she is very obese despite being kept on a
>strict diet (she is a 50+ pound sheltie, even though she gets the same
>amount of food daily as my 24 pound sheltie), and had awful skins problems,
>major hair loss, etc.
> I feed them all Nutro Lamb and Rice diet, and have for years, and
>it seems to agree with all of them.
>
>So imagine my shock when the results came back, and Willow (the fat sheltie)
>had mostly normal readings, but Merlin and Maggie (the two older but
>seemingly healthier dogs) came back with triglyceride readings off the
>charts. The vet said that a value of 290 was the max normal number for dogs,
>and Maggie had a triglyceride reading of 950! And Merlin's reading was even
>worse, his was 1880!!
I've never liked Nutro. The Lamb and Rice you are mentioning is an "all life
stages" food (check the AAFCO statement on the bag) and contains nutrient
levels designed for growing puppies, not adult and senior dogs.
>Well, to be honest, I've never had a very good opinion of Science Diet. For
>one thing it seems to use corn as a chief ingredient, as well as animal
>by-products - and most of the reading I've done indicates that corn is a
>major allergen for dogs, and a "good" diet for dogs is one that avoids both
>corn and wheat. Nutro lamb and rice has filled the bill nicely, and they
>have eaten it most of their lives - but it is obviously not helping here.
According to Small Animal Clinical Nutrition, Vol. IV--corn is NOT a major
allergen and dogs that are actually allergic to corn and rare, indeed. Most
dog food companies try to differentiate themselves by scaring consumers about
ingredients. They completely IGNORE nutrition.
>I looked up the nutritional analysis for the Science Diet i/d - and it is 9%
>fat, so a bit lower - but the list of ingredients starts out: "Corn meal,
>brewers rice, dried egg product, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal"
>- Corn meal!
>- Chicken by-products!
>- Corn gluten meal!
>All the sort of things I have tried to avoid giving to my dogs. Of course I
>look at the Nutro web site and they talk about how their food is good for a
>dog's skin, yet Willow has the most horrible skin and dandruffy-type flakes
>I've even seen on a dog, despite a life-long Nutro diet, so I know you can't
>believe everything your read. But in general I've liked the Nutro products.
It seems as if you're making an emotional decision here. You are complaining
about the Nutro, yet you "like" it?? Excessive calcium levels (such as in
Nutro) can contribute to the skin condition you've mentioned. You've seen for
yourself what happens when focusing on ingredients instead of nutrients. Corn
is actually a good ingredient--doesn't cause hot spots, is high in linoleic
acid (good for health skin and coat) and the carbs in corn are almost
completely digestible (so much for corn not being digestible)!! There are good
"by-products" and bad ones. Science Diet doesnt' use "bad" by-products. In
fact, there is increasing evidence that certain chicken by-products are
actually high in glucosamine and therefore can be useful for managing joint
health.
>The Science Diet i/d certainly does not seem to contain any "magic" medical
>ingredients, yet it can be purchased only through a vet, and probably at a
>high price to boot.
There aren't "magic" ingredients in any food. What should be of concern, would
be nutrient levels. i/d is high in B-vitamins and electrolytes. You're not
going to find that out by reading an ingredient label. Ingredients can be
"substituted" as well, so most ingredient labels aren't accurate. Hill's
doesn't do this with their foods.
Debbie, give your vet's recommendations a try. Trying other unproven options
would only be dangerous for your dogs. Here's hoping for the best! :)
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