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Subject: Re: Need solutions to tame brat collie girl (long)
From: abadabracadabrah@aol.com (ABADABRACADABRAH)
Date: 9/6/04 2:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <20040906142103.24934.00000471@mb-m28.aol.com>
Subject: Need solutions to tame brat collie girl (long)
From: "Chris Jung" cjung@twcny.rr.com
Date: 9/6/04 10:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <rO__c.213864$bp1.16657@twister.nyroc.rr.com>
> Hi all,
HOWEDY chris,
> As you know we adopted our new collie girl, Lucy, a little over 4 months ago.
INDEEDY. You've been a regular CONtributor to HOWER forums for years.
> Overall she fits in perfectly in our family.
Only liars dog abusers cowards punks thugs and active long
term incurable MENTAL CASES post here abHOWETS, chris.
> Lucy was just under 2 when we brought her home. She was living at
> her breeder's house, in a rural subdivision. Each lot was about 3 acres
> or so.
So? A dog is a dog. Dogs only respong in PREDICTABLE NORMAL
NATURAL INNATE INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE ways to situations
and circumstances of their environments which we create for them.
> The local kids like to run their ATVs & motorbikes in the field behind
> the breeder's property. Her collies (all five of them) hate the motorbikes
> and take great delight in chasing after them along the fence line.
No. They HATE the motorbikes and FEAR them. THAT'S HOWE
COME they CHASE and BARK at them. Dogs and children LEARN
to HATE and FEAR from their ENVIRONMENTS which we provide.
> At first, if Lucy saw anything exciting
FEARFUL.
> outside the fence (exciting being an animal such as squirrel, mowers
> being used by our neighbors, people walking, biking or running on
> our streets.) she would rush the fence, barking furiously.
You could break that in moments if you PRAISE her.
> That was really obnoxious.
That so? HOWE is the DOG bein AFRAID, obnoxiHOWES?
> To reduce this behavior I only let her out when I can go out too.
To force CON-TROLL and INTIMIDATE her to BE NICE?
> When she starts a charge, I call/distract her.
That's not gonna EXXXTINGUISH the behavior, chris.
You know that. That NEVER WORKS on accHOWENT of you're
forcing CON-TROLL, not TEACHING SELF CON-TROLL.
> I've been taking on many walks to expose her to bicyclists and all
> sorts of people.
The dog ain't AFRAID of THINGS he's AFRIAD on accHOWENT
of he don't have CONfidence in YOU, on accHOWENT of you
mishandle him.
> While on walks, at first she would get overly excited about bicyclists
> but is now nicely blasé about them. She has always been very friendly
> and polite with meeting people on walks.
Well then, you're writing in to SHARE your SUCCESS!
> I need to describe our backyard set-up so you can understand our current
problem.
No you don't. All you gotta do is learn HOWE to PRAISE your dog
when she's AFRAID and SHE WON'T BE AFRAID noMOORE.
<snip HOWES>
> The majority of our basement is an apartment rented by Allison, a
> vet who has 1 dog (Sydney who hangs with us) and two cats, Tabitha & Lilly.
Well then, your vet will know HOWE to TRAIN your dogs.
> Of the six windows in the apartment, four of them face the fenced in
> backyard (two facing south, two facing east). It's very easy for a nosy
> collie to spy on our tenant's activities. (go to http://pg.photos.yahoo.com
> /ph/chrisjjung/my_photos to see a photo of Lucy supervising Jo, our
> previous tenant while she was folding her laundry)
You can TRAIN your dog not to look in those windows NEARLY INSTANTLY
using EFFECTIVE distraction and praise techniques and PRAISE IN ADVANCE
when you see her thinkin abHOWET lookin in the windows.
> The problem is that if Lucy sees any movement in the apartment, she
> likes to stalk and then rush up to the window with a big loud roar.
On accHOWENT of SHE'S AFRAID.
All you gotta do is PRAISE HER and she WON'T BE AFRAID.
> I've been on the reviving end of one of her charges and I just about had
> a heart attack. (As an aside, Lucy was most embarrassed and apologetic
> when she realized that it was me that she had startled)
That's curiHOWES. HOWE would a dog KNOW to be EMBARRASSED?
> The two extra wide window sills would make ideal cat sunning spots but
> when Lucy spies a cat, she charges to the window, slamming her nose
> into the window/screen and spraying the window with little rocks.
You could train your dog to accept your kats NEARLY INSTANTLY
if you knew HOWE to get 100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL CON-TROLL
of your dogs using EFFECTIVE NON PHYSICAL CONDITIONING
and DESENSITIZATION and CONfidence building and BONDING
techniques, perhaps even using the FEAR itself to make the dog HAPPY.
> Poor scaredy cat Tabitha runs. Lilly on the other hand, has taken up the
> challenge and likes to taunt Lucy.
A kat is a kat. Let's hope the kitty kat don't get HOWET WON fine
day and meet his maker, like culprit aka kelly aka metta's DEAD
seven thHOWESAND dollar kat done when she FORGOT to put
the SHOCK COLLARS back on her dogs.
> They will both stand at the window, nose to nose. Lilly will pace and
> occasionally sit up and paw at Lucy's face through the glass. Lucy whines,
> wags and matches Lilly's pacing.
Yeah. You can't let them do that.
> Both Lucy and Lilly are brats.
Naaah. You and your vet friend are idiots.
> If Lilly hears that I've let Lucy outside, she immediately jumps up to
> the sill and taps at the pane to get Lucy's attention.
A kat is a kat.
> Allison and I don't mind that Lucy and Lilly have a sort of play relationship
going.
They're AGGITATING each other, like culprit aka kelly aka metta's
DEAD KAT was doin with her dogs through the shock fence.
> What we don't like is Lucy's sneaky charging/barking behavior.
Yeah. Not to worry abHOWET their anxiHOWESNESS.
> Allison should be able to have her curtains open and walk around
> her apartment without a bratty collie sneaking up on her.
Yeah. Too bad you and all your pals here ain't got the INTELLECT
to HOWEtwit the cunning of the domestic puppy dog.
> My impression is
You using a a crystal ball? Or maybe cards or runes or just throwin bones?
> that Lucy isn't doing this out of fear but that she thinks it's fun.
WHATEVER!!!
> I"m pretty sure she knows I don't like it
On accHOWENT of you PUNISH SCOLD THREATEN and give
her alternate incompatible behaviors like CALLING and REWARDING
her for payin attention to YOU.
> (if I spy her starting a charge, I just need to say her name and she puts on
> the brakes and starts non-chalantly sniffing grass).
RIGHT. THAT'S HOWE COME DOGS FEAR THINGS WHEN
THEIR CON-TROLLER AIN'T THERE TO CON-TROLL the
ENVIRONMENT, chris.
You're learnin FAST. Good work.
> But she's sly
Like HOWE YOU TAUGHT HER.
> and waits until I've turned my back to make a quick charge.
YEAH. NICE WORK!
That's HOWE COME every thing you THOUGHT you knew
abHOWET trainin and behavior is DEAD WRONG.
> I've thought about doing something in front of the window to force Lucy to
stay back.
You could MHOWENT a scare crow and put a recorder in it sayin
"LUCY! DON'T YOU DARE, TOXIC MOMMY IS WATCHIN."
> I had heard that dogs don't like to step on upside down plastic runners
Ahhhh, you mean an aversive, instead of just another empty THREAT.
> (like those plastic mat used under office chairs).
THAT'S INSANE.
> I tried that and discovered that Lucy doesn't mind at all stepping on
> those plastic points.
BWEEEEEAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
> I've tried a tube of chicken wire on the ground before the windows
> thinking that she wouldn't like to get her little toes caught in it
YEAH. THE DOG OUGHTA BE SMART ENOUGH NOT TO HURT HISSELF.
> but that doesn't bother her either.
BWEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
> Does anyone have suggestions on how to break Lucy
> of her bratty sneak attack habit?
Yeah. Stop trying to hurt and intimidate her and teach her
confidence and SELF CON-TROLL by using EFFECTIVE
NON PHYSICAL SCIENTIFIC and PSYCHOLGICAL
techniques as taught in your FREE copy of The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual and ask The Amazing Puppy Wizard if
you have any difficulty.
> I'm now thinking of buying some welded wire fence, pound in some
> fence posts and making a half circle buffer zone around each window.
Ever hear of BARRIER FRUSTRATION SYNDROME, chris?
> I'm not thrilled with doing that - it'll be a hassle.
Yeah. It'd take you a couple minutes to TRAIN your dog
not to stalk the windows. It'll take you FOREVER to build
and rebuild barriers that will furthre frustrate your fearful dog.
> Any other ideas?
Yeah. GET HOWETA THIS BUSINESS.
You don't have the INTELLECT to HOWEtwit the cunning
of the domestic puppy dog even after The Amazing Puppy
Wizard and all HIS 100% NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
all over the Whole Wild World told you HOWE they done it EZ
GENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY and FOR FREE, to boot.
> Chris and her smoothies,
> Pablo the Good and Lucy the Total Brat, good thing she's cute
Yeah. Like all the other DEAD DOGS you and your pals have
enterTRAINED TO DEATH right here on The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Forums.
"Dan Moore" <mooreteam@worldnet.att.net>
wrote in message
news:fS2Lc.114567$OB3.42357@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.
...
>
> Tracy,
>
> What worked for me, in just one storm,
> was to praise the dog after each clap
> of thunder, telling him he's a Good Dog!
>
> This is an almost 13 year old Doberman, BTW.
>
> The next time it thundered, he did not even react at
> all--you could not tell it was the same dog as before.
>
> There was more thunder just the other day, and same
> thing, nada, nothing, zilch, no cowering, whimpering,
> trying to hide at all, it was that simple.
>
> I got this idea from Jerry Howe, who might seem
> to be a "wild and crazy" character, but his non-
> abusive way of handling dogs WORKS.
>
> Wonderfully.
>
> Praise.
>
> It's that simple.
>
> Juanita
"Estel J. Hines" <ejhines@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:w86dna9lBfNZgbTdRVn-hA@comcast.com...
>
> Until i read the Jerry method of Bark reductioon,
> it went something like this with our 11 month old
> puppy "Yoshi"
>
> Yoshi: Bark, bark,
>
> us: HUSH Youshi
>
> Yoshi Bark, bark......................
>
> us: Hush Youshi
>
> Yoshi BARK, BARK, BARK, .................................i
> it stopped when Yoshi got tired barking
>
> We decided to try the Jerry method
>
> :Yoshi: BARK, BARK
>
> US: GOOD Yoshi, Good Boy, who is it?
>
> Yoshi Bark, Bark
> US: It's ok, good boy Yoshi, We know them
>
> Yosh without fail, now stops after we say that
>
> I must say, it is so much more fun, when we
> can praise him, to deal with things like this
>
> Thanks Jerry
>
> ps: We are just starting to go thru the Jerry
> Papers, and learn how to live with our son
> "Yoshi", whom we love very much.
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Estel J. Hines
==============
HOWEDY Brandy,
"Brandy Kurtz" <KraftyKurtzs@wmconnect.com> wrote in message
news:2f66e35d.0407302331.1f18b8c6@posting.google.com...
> KraftyKurtzs@wmconnect.com (Brandy Kurtz) wrote in message
news:<2f66e35d.0407262049.7b3a7b51@posting.google.com>...
>
> > Hello everyone! We have a 2 1/2 year old male
>
> Well I just printed out the Amazing Puppy Wizard info,
> so I haven't actually started to train yet.
>
> Today a salesman knocked on the door, and Pokey
> was going balisstic. I calmly go to the window to see
> who it is, and off-handly say Good Boy, It's a stranger,
> Good Boy. Pokey shut right up, gave me a quizical
> look, and came and sat beside my feet! OMG, I could
> not believe it!
>
> I was totally floored, as this has been his
> behavior since a pup. Just wanted to update,
> and Pokey and I are hitting the sack...;)
Well THAT IS encouraging, AIN'T IT.
> Brandy
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.
Date: 5/22/03 11:24:35 PM Eastern
Daylight Time
From: p@cfl.rr.com
To: Witsenddog@aol.com
Well, let me tell you, your Wits' End
Dog Training Method works.
My dog, Dasie, Loves to chase chameleons
around the barbecue on the patio. I
used this system on four different occasions.
When she went out today, she looked
everywhere else but the barbecue.
Amazing, just amazing.
I will write to Amanda about the video.
I am really excited to learn more, and
understand. Maybe just a little reassurance
that I am going about it the right way.
Thanks again
Paul
From: Chris Williams (k9apple@webtv.net)
Subject: Re: Thank you Jerry Howe
Date: 2002-03-26 08:16:19 PST
Engrossing account, Anthony. Our best to Angel
and your family.
A friend, who socializes the kittens I've taken
from a feral cat colony, is using the DDR.
She reports far fewer panic problems than
she's had before.
============================
Chris Williams writes:
"The FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual
I do find valuable. Much of it I recognize as what
I've always done without thinking of it as "training".
New stuff, I've used. His anchoring technique erased
the last of Mac's fireworks trauma,"
====================
----- Original Message -----
From: <n> To: "Jerry Howe"
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Damned Family Leadership Exercise -
Re: Am I expecting to much
Hi Jerry,
When I talked to you on the phone to order to machine
for daughter's new pup, I told you that I had an older
Chessie. I rescued him at 9 years old and have had him
for 3 years.
It's funny, but I thought I'd try some of your book training
with him.
Where I used to say "come" and then say "good boy"
when he obeyed, I have reversed it with a "good boy" first.
It really does work. He was very confused at first,
wondering what he had done to get the praise.
But it really gets the attention and distracts him from
whatever he may have going through his brain when
he hears it.
Dogs are funny, but people are too. Can't wait to get
the Doggy do Right, etc.
Thanks, N
------------------------------------
"If I Knew It Would Be That Easy, I Would Have
Done This A Long Time Ago Saving Myself 5 Years
Of Dealing With A Bouncy, Over Excited Dog!" Jenn.
Hello Jenn,
"brijen" <brijen@vennercnospams.com> wrote in message
news:397cfaa3_1@news.oanet.com...
> Hello Jerry,
> I just wanted to let you know that I am
> trying this right now.
Good.
> I am the woman who wrote to you a while
> ago about trying to walk my dog without the
> pinch collar.
I recall.
> She also goes APE when I grab the leash.
> We have been doing this technique you
> recommend for about a half an hour now
> and the results are already fantastic, as
> well as amusing!
Yeah, dog training should always be more
fun than work.
> At first, we went out and I stood there,
> and Anya kept trying to head out to the
> sidewalk. When I didn't follow, she came
> and sat beside me at heel! (Thanks to
> your help!) She'd NEVER done that before.
It's the same principle as in the Hot And
Cold Exercise.
> I rewarded that with a few steps of a walk,
> but we came in after about 30 seconds. She
> stopped and looked at me as if she were
> thinking, "What? But we just got out here!"
> The second and third times, she was even
> MORE eager when she saw the leash, and
> I got the same look when I turned around
> to go back in. The fourth time, she just
> bounced a bit as she walked to the door
> with me, and sat nicely to wait until I hooked
> up the leash, and this last time, I HAD
> TO CALL HER TO ME!!!!!!!!!!
Fine. That's because dogs learn on the basis of
four repetitions. That's not to say they can't learn
some things faster, but for breaking habits, it
usually happens the fourth time we repeat a lesson.
Then we need to repeat the lesson at three more
locations our time in each to generalize the idea.
Let's say your dog gets excited when you take her
lead and go to the front door. She would probably
do the same at the back door, but to not such a degree.
Likewise for any other door.
It would behoove you to repeat the exercise with
several other doors and it would be easiest to
start with a door that had less excitement involved
with it.
> If I knew it would be that easy, I would have
> done this a long time ago saving myself 5
> years of dealing with a bouncy, over excited dog!
The non force methods work fast and easy
because we are not challenging the dog or
calling our attention to their behavior problems.
> I have to tell you how the walk is going though.
> I have a lot of problems there, but it is all ME.
> I have been so conditioned to "correct" her,
> that I still find myself yanking on her collar.
Yes, those habits are hard to break. It's easier for
me to train a person who has no experience at all
because they have no bad habits of pulling and
forcing control.
> I feel so awful! We have only been working
> in the yard without distractions, because I
> honestly don't know what will happen if she
> sees another dog and I won't have the pinch
> collar to keep her from dragging me over for
> a fight.
You know that working the dog in the back
yard is not preferable, because that causes
them some anxiety because it's their free area.
But with your dog and with the difficulty he is
to handle, I don't see any reason you shouldn't
do the Family Leadership Exercise and the come
command several times out there, and then you'll
have the control to do it in a more neutral area.
> The upside is, when I take the leash off it's
> hook and don't take the pinch collar, her
> excitement to go for a walk is NO LONGER
> combined with the intense fear I used to see
> in her eyes at the sight of the pinch!
Our group likes to think that is EXCITEMENT and
eagerness to work. It is sheer terror. The pinch
collar works by overriding the opposition reflex
through fear and that cause tremendous stress
and anxiety that must be released through anxiety
relief mechanisms like barking, digging, whining,
chewing, self mutilation and aggression.
> That does it for me. I can't believe I instilled
> fear in my beautiful dog just for the sake that
> I didn't know how to train. Well, I still don't
> know how, but I'm learning!
That's where I was three dozen years ago. I was
ready to just quit. I wasn't going to sour any more
dogs to make them work.
> Thanks for your help. Please send more
> suggestions if you saw something I could
> be doing differently!
>
> Jenn & Anya
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