| Rick |
"Rob Davis" <robd216@comcast.net> wrote in message news:MOSAb.54172$_M.261453@attbi_s54...
> http://home.comcast.net/~robd216/index.html
If the bird was "sick from the start" as you claim on your
webpage, you should have returned it immediately (or at
least within the 14-day return period).
Rick
|
|
|
| Rob Davis |
Hey Rick...didn't anyone ever tell you that birds hide illness as a way to
protect themselves from predators in the wild. By the time a bird shows any
outward signs of illness, it is already in critical condition and may not
live. Ours showed symptoms 5 weeks after purchase.
Do you work for PetsMart? You seem to know their "guarantee" well.
"Rick" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:br0ugq$2852qv$1@ID-82690.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "Rob Davis" <robd216@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:MOSAb.54172$_M.261453@attbi_s54...
> > http://home.comcast.net/~robd216/index.html
>
> If the bird was "sick from the start" as you claim on your
> webpage, you should have returned it immediately (or at
> least within the 14-day return period).
>
> Rick
>
>
|
|
|
| Rick |
Now I'm confused.. How do you know the bird was "sick from
the start" if it didn't show any symptoms for five weeks?
In any case, did you have the bird checked by an avian vet after
you bought it? A blood and stool sample would have uncovered
most major problems, even if the bird was trying to hide something.
Rick
"Rob Davis" <robd216@comcast.net> wrote in message news:FxWAb.332343$9E1.1630022@attbi_s52...
> Hey Rick...didn't anyone ever tell you that birds hide illness as a way to
> protect themselves from predators in the wild. By the time a bird shows any
> outward signs of illness, it is already in critical condition and may not
> live. Ours showed symptoms 5 weeks after purchase.
>
> Do you work for PetsMart? You seem to know their "guarantee" well.
>
> "Rick" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:br0ugq$2852qv$1@ID-82690.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > "Rob Davis" <robd216@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:MOSAb.54172$_M.261453@attbi_s54...
> > > http://home.comcast.net/~robd216/index.html
> >
> > If the bird was "sick from the start" as you claim on your
> > webpage, you should have returned it immediately (or at
> > least within the 14-day return period).
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
>
>
|
|
|
| Rob |
Xref: 127.0.0.1 rec.pets.birds:199425
Our avian vet saw the bird 5 weeks after we bought him. I have photos taken
5 days after he came home with us showing severe feather depigmentation,
which our vet said is a sign of stress/illness...and it doesn;t show up
overnight. Unfortunately, I am not an expert bird owner, and I didn't
recognize the feather issues when we first bought the bird. He seemed to be
healthy, a bit finicky on eating, but that was attributed to moving into a
new home. I do have a healthy and active 2 year old Sun Conure and a great
11 year old rare parakeet...we've had both since they were very young and
neither bird has had any type of illness.
So...yes, a test by the vet within the two weeks would provide definite
proof of illness. However, PetsMart never recommended having the bird
tested, and they did not provide any documentation of the bird's health at
the time of sale either. So what good is a 14 day guarantee if PetsMart
doesn't recommend that a novice bird owner have the bird tested? The bird
would have to keel over and die in those two weeks for them to honor the
guarantee. That's part of being a "responsible" pet shop selling live
pets...educating your potential customers and steering them in the right
direction.
From what I was told, the bird was tested when it came from the breeder,
which was over 6 months prior to our purchase. I've heard so many stories
about the deplorable living conditions and poorly trained employees at
PetsMart. If it were an isolated incident, it wouldn;t be such a concern,
but I've already had a number of people tell me about some bad dealings with
PetsMart in the last few days.
So we live and learn. I'm doing my job to educate the public on ethical
business practices involving the sale of live pets. I've made my mistake and
learned.
"Rick" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:br1d5p$27lu7r$1@ID-82690.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Now I'm confused.. How do you know the bird was "sick from
> the start" if it didn't show any symptoms for five weeks?
>
> In any case, did you have the bird checked by an avian vet after
> you bought it? A blood and stool sample would have uncovered
> most major problems, even if the bird was trying to hide something.
>
> Rick
>
> "Rob Davis" <robd216@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:FxWAb.332343$9E1.1630022@attbi_s52...
> > Hey Rick...didn't anyone ever tell you that birds hide illness as a way
to
> > protect themselves from predators in the wild. By the time a bird shows
any
> > outward signs of illness, it is already in critical condition and may
not
> > live. Ours showed symptoms 5 weeks after purchase.
> >
> > Do you work for PetsMart? You seem to know their "guarantee" well.
> >
> > "Rick" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> > news:br0ugq$2852qv$1@ID-82690.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > "Rob Davis" <robd216@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:MOSAb.54172$_M.261453@attbi_s54...
> > > > http://home.comcast.net/~robd216/index.html
> > >
> > > If the bird was "sick from the start" as you claim on your
> > > webpage, you should have returned it immediately (or at
> > > least within the 14-day return period).
> > >
> > > Rick
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
|
|
|
| Rick |
"Rob" <robd_63@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:wiXAb.267231$Dw6.908717@attbi_s02...
> Our avian vet saw the bird 5 weeks after we bought him. I have photos taken
> 5 days after he came home with us showing severe feather depigmentation,
> which our vet said is a sign of stress/illness...and it doesn;t show up
> overnight. Unfortunately, I am not an expert bird owner, and I didn't
> recognize the feather issues when we first bought the bird. He seemed to be
> healthy, a bit finicky on eating, but that was attributed to moving into a
> new home. I do have a healthy and active 2 year old Sun Conure and a great
> 11 year old rare parakeet...we've had both since they were very young and
> neither bird has had any type of illness.
>
> So...yes, a test by the vet within the two weeks would provide definite
> proof of illness. However, PetsMart never recommended having the bird
> tested, and they did not provide any documentation of the bird's health at
> the time of sale either. So what good is a 14 day guarantee if PetsMart
> doesn't recommend that a novice bird owner have the bird tested?
That's standard procedure for any pet. Especially birds.
> The bird
> would have to keel over and die in those two weeks for them to honor the
> guarantee. That's part of being a "responsible" pet shop selling live
> pets...educating your potential customers and steering them in the right
> direction.
Agreed. But you can't blame the store for your own lack of
experience. Most bird owners would have recognized the
sign of illness and not purchased it in the first place, or at least
would have had it examined by a vet before the return period
ended.
Rick
|
|
|
| Rob |
Okay...I guess you're right. I can't blame the store. You better get to
bed...PetsMart opens at 10 a.m. Your boss will be mad if you're late.
"Rick" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:br1hc5$238smv$1@ID-82690.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "Rob" <robd_63@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:wiXAb.267231$Dw6.908717@attbi_s02...
> > Our avian vet saw the bird 5 weeks after we bought him. I have photos
taken
> > 5 days after he came home with us showing severe feather depigmentation,
> > which our vet said is a sign of stress/illness...and it doesn;t show up
> > overnight. Unfortunately, I am not an expert bird owner, and I didn't
> > recognize the feather issues when we first bought the bird. He seemed to
be
> > healthy, a bit finicky on eating, but that was attributed to moving into
a
> > new home. I do have a healthy and active 2 year old Sun Conure and a
great
> > 11 year old rare parakeet...we've had both since they were very young
and
> > neither bird has had any type of illness.
> >
> > So...yes, a test by the vet within the two weeks would provide definite
> > proof of illness. However, PetsMart never recommended having the bird
> > tested, and they did not provide any documentation of the bird's health
at
> > the time of sale either. So what good is a 14 day guarantee if PetsMart
> > doesn't recommend that a novice bird owner have the bird tested?
>
> That's standard procedure for any pet. Especially birds.
>
> > The bird
> > would have to keel over and die in those two weeks for them to honor the
> > guarantee. That's part of being a "responsible" pet shop selling live
> > pets...educating your potential customers and steering them in the right
> > direction.
>
> Agreed. But you can't blame the store for your own lack of
> experience. Most bird owners would have recognized the
> sign of illness and not purchased it in the first place, or at least
> would have had it examined by a vet before the return period
> ended.
>
> Rick
>
>
|
|
|
| peneny@earthlink.net |
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 09:15:08 GMT, "Rob" <robd_63@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Our avian vet saw the bird 5 weeks after we bought him. I have photos taken
>5 days after he came home with us showing severe feather depigmentation,
>which our vet said is a sign of stress/illness...and it doesn;t show up
>overnight. Unfortunately, I am not an expert bird owner, and I didn't
>recognize the feather issues when we first bought the bird. He seemed to be
>healthy, a bit finicky on eating, but that was attributed to moving into a
>new home. I do have a healthy and active 2 year old Sun Conure and a great
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>11 year old rare parakeet...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>we've had both since they were very young and
>neither bird has had any type of illness.
>
>So...yes, a test by the vet within the two weeks would provide definite
>proof of illness. However, PetsMart never recommended having the bird
>tested, and they did not provide any documentation of the bird's health at
>the time of sale either. So what good is a 14 day guarantee if PetsMart
>doesn't recommend that a novice bird owner have the bird tested?
According to you you've had birds for eleven years. When does one stop
being a novice? IMO you weren't a novice bird owner, but an ignorant
one. Why didn't you take a little time in those eleven years to
educate yourself?
>the bird
>would have to keel over and die in those two weeks for them to honor the
>guarantee.
Proof please.
>that's part of being a "responsible" pet shop selling live
>pets...educating your potential customers and steering them in the right
>direction.
>
>From what I was told, the bird was tested when it came from the breeder,
>which was over 6 months prior to our purchase. I've heard so many stories
>about the deplorable living conditions and poorly trained employees at
>PetsMart. If it were an isolated incident, it wouldn;t be such a concern,
>but I've already had a number of people tell me about some bad dealings with
>PetsMart in the last few days.
>
>So we live and learn. I'm doing my job to educate the public on ethical
>business practices involving the sale of live pets. I've made my mistake and
>learned.
>
>"Rick" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>news:br1d5p$27lu7r$1@ID-82690.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> Now I'm confused.. How do you know the bird was "sick from
>> the start" if it didn't show any symptoms for five weeks?
>>
>> In any case, did you have the bird checked by an avian vet after
>> you bought it? A blood and stool sample would have uncovered
>> most major problems, even if the bird was trying to hide something.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> "Rob Davis" <robd216@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:FxWAb.332343$9E1.1630022@attbi_s52...
>> > Hey Rick...didn't anyone ever tell you that birds hide illness as a way
>to
>> > protect themselves from predators in the wild. By the time a bird shows
>any
>> > outward signs of illness, it is already in critical condition and may
>not
>> > live. Ours showed symptoms 5 weeks after purchase.
>> >
>> > Do you work for PetsMart? You seem to know their "guarantee" well.
>> >
>> > "Rick" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> > news:br0ugq$2852qv$1@ID-82690.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> > > "Rob Davis" <robd216@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> > news:MOSAb.54172$_M.261453@attbi_s54...
>> > > > http://home.comcast.net/~robd216/index.html
>> > >
>> > > If the bird was "sick from the start" as you claim on your
>> > > webpage, you should have returned it immediately (or at
>> > > least within the 14-day return period).
>> > >
>> > > Rick
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
|
|
|
| peneny@earthlink.net |
On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 01:47:49 -0800, "Rick" <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>> The bird
>> would have to keel over and die in those two weeks for them to honor the
>> guarantee. That's part of being a "responsible" pet shop selling live
>> pets...educating your potential customers and steering them in the right
>> direction.
>
>Agreed. But you can't blame the store for your own lack of
>experience. Most bird owners would have recognized the
>sign of illness and not purchased it in the first place, or at least
>would have had it examined by a vet before the return period
>ended.
Lack of experience? the guy by his own admission has owned a bird for
eleven years. Ignoring the parakeet he has still owned a sun conure
for two years. If there is any blame to be placed the guy simply needs
to look in the mirror.
>
>Rick
>
|
|
|
| oldmolly |
"Rob" <robd_63@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:wiXAb.267231$Dw6.908717@attbi_s02...
>a great
> 11 year old rare parakeet
What is one of those?
> That's part of being a "responsible" pet shop selling live
> pets...educating your potential customers and steering them in the >right
> direction.
I'm afraid I disagree. People expect to be nannied through life nowadays it
seems. If you go to buy a pet, it is *your* responsibility to educate
yourself and find out how to care for it and what to do to protect the other
pets in your home. It is *not* the shop's responsibility to rigorously
question you with regard to your home, what other pets you have, where the
cage is to be positioned, so that they can give individual advice to help
you care properly for the pet.
>
> From what I was told, the bird was tested when it came from the breeder,
> which was over 6 months prior to our purchase.
So it was free from the diseases it was tested for when it entered the shop,
so what?
> I've heard so many stories
> about the deplorable living conditions and poorly trained employees at
> PetsMart. If it were an isolated incident, it wouldn;t be such a concern,
> but I've already had a number of people tell me about some bad dealings
with
> PetsMart in the last few days.
But you went there and bought a bird anyway???
>
> So we live and learn. I'm doing my job to educate the public on ethical
> business practices involving the sale of live pets. I've made my mistake
and
> learned.
>
> "Rick" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:br1d5p$27lu7r$1@ID-82690.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > Now I'm confused.. How do you know the bird was "sick from
> > the start" if it didn't show any symptoms for five weeks?
> >
> > In any case, did you have the bird checked by an avian vet after
> > you bought it? A blood and stool sample would have uncovered
> > most major problems, even if the bird was trying to hide something.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> > "Rob Davis" <robd216@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:FxWAb.332343$9E1.1630022@attbi_s52...
> > > Hey Rick...didn't anyone ever tell you that birds hide illness as a
way
> to
> > > protect themselves from predators in the wild. By the time a bird
shows
> any
> > > outward signs of illness, it is already in critical condition and may
> not
> > > live. Ours showed symptoms 5 weeks after purchase.
> > >
> > > Do you work for PetsMart? You seem to know their "guarantee" well.
> > >
> > > "Rick" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> > > news:br0ugq$2852qv$1@ID-82690.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > "Rob Davis" <robd216@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > news:MOSAb.54172$_M.261453@attbi_s54...
> > > > > http://home.comcast.net/~robd216/index.html
> > > >
> > > > If the bird was "sick from the start" as you claim on your
> > > > webpage, you should have returned it immediately (or at
> > > > least within the 14-day return period).
> > > >
> > > > Rick
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
|
|
|
| Guido |
The only time I shop at PetsMart is when running out of bird seed or
cuttlebone.
There's another "Pet something" chain nearby and I won't go there again.
Staffing, service, sucks. Staffed mostly by kids.
Rob Davis wrote:
> http://home.comcast.net/~robd216/index.html
|
|
|
| Steve |
"oldmolly" <oldmolly1@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Hv%Ab.2126$Bj6.162@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
>
> "Rob" <robd_63@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:wiXAb.267231$Dw6.908717@attbi_s02...
> >a great
> > 11 year old rare parakeet
>
> What is one of those?
>
>
It's a scam to get $5 more for a budgie.
--
Steve
|
|
|
| Steve |
"Rob Davis" <robd216@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:MOSAb.54172$_M.261453@attbi_s54...
> http://home.comcast.net/~robd216/index.html
>
>
Why on God's green earth do you think that telling the world that you are an
absolute 1st class moron (with the evidence to prove it) will wake people up
to the practices of retail merchants?
caveat emptor
--
Steve
|
|
|
| Steve |
"Rob" <robd_63@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ZeYAb.267694$Dw6.909325@attbi_s02...
> Okay...I guess you're right. I can't blame the store. You better get to
> bed...PetsMart opens at 10 a.m. Your boss will be mad if you're late.
>
and I'll be there to buy something.
--
Steve
|
|
|
| Rob |
"Steve" blurts out
>
> and I'll be there to buy something.
>
> --
> Steve
>
>
Your loss buddy. I just hope whatever you buy isn't live.
|
|
|
| Suzy |
"Rick" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:br1hc5$238smv$1@ID-82690.news.uni-berlin.de...
> So...yes, a test by the vet within the two weeks would provide definite
> > proof of illness. However, PetsMart never recommended having the bird
> > tested, and they did not provide any documentation of the bird's health
at
> > the time of sale either. So what good is a 14 day guarantee if PetsMart
> > doesn't recommend that a novice bird owner have the bird tested?
>
> That's standard procedure for any pet. Especially birds.
Standard procedure for an EXPERIENCED bird owner.
> Agreed. But you can't blame the store for your own lack of
> experience. Most bird owners would have recognized the
> sign of illness and not purchased it in the first place, or at least
> would have had it examined by a vet before the return period
> ended.
>
> Rick
>
No...this guy isnt blaming the store for his own lack of experience. He is
blaming them for selling unhealthy birds.
|
|
|
| Rick |
"Suzy" <SuzySnowflake@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:wY4Bb.467929$Tr4.1290524@attbi_s03...
>
> "Rick" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:br1hc5$238smv$1@ID-82690.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> > So...yes, a test by the vet within the two weeks would provide definite
> > > proof of illness. However, PetsMart never recommended having the bird
> > > tested, and they did not provide any documentation of the bird's health
> at
> > > the time of sale either. So what good is a 14 day guarantee if PetsMart
> > > doesn't recommend that a novice bird owner have the bird tested?
> >
> > That's standard procedure for any pet. Especially birds.
>
> Standard procedure for an EXPERIENCED bird owner.
First of all, the guy _was_ an experienced bird owner. Also,
anyone who buys a pet, especially one that costs $1500 is
going to have it checked out. People do as much for USED
CARS for chrissakes.
> > Agreed. But you can't blame the store for your own lack of
> > experience. Most bird owners would have recognized the
> > sign of illness and not purchased it in the first place, or at least
> > would have had it examined by a vet before the return period
> > ended.
>
> No...this guy isnt blaming the store for his own lack of experience. He is
> blaming them for selling unhealthy birds.
Look, no one put a gun to his head and forced him to buy an
obviously sick bird. I can understand him being upset with
himself for not getting the bird checked by a vet before his
return period ran out, but to take this anger out on the store
when he bought it is downright ridiculous. That's why he
lost his small claims case -- the store met their obligation.
Rick
|
|
|
| Digital_Cowboy |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
"Rob Davis" <robd216@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:MOSAb.54172$_M.261453@attbi_s54...
| http://home.comcast.net/~robd216/index.html
|
|
Rob,
The only thing that I want to know is why did it take you 5 wks to have your
new bird checked by a vet??? And did you quarantine it from your other two
birds, or did you put it into the same room with them as soon as you got home?
And yes, 11 yrs with a budgie and 1 1/2 yrs with a Sun Conure DOESN'T make
one
an expert in all types of birds. BUT it does move you from the status of novice
to amateur/semi-experienced. And as such YOU should have known enough to have
had a well bird checkup done ASAP. As well as to quarantine your new bird from
your old ones so that IF he had anything that is/was communicable that he
wouldn't endanger the health of your other two birds.
Just a couple of months ago I lost a 'tiel that I'd had for 11 yrs. After
finding a vet to do a necropsy and calling my father to take me to the vet. I
took his body out of the house through the backdoor so as NOT to take the chance
of endangering my lovebirds life/health.
Then I washed his cage down with plenty of hot soapy water, and rinsed it,
and washed it down with a bleach solution. I then took all of the ropes, and
wood and baked them in the oven for 30-45 mins at 350 degrees. Anything that
couldn't take the baking I boiled, or pitched, so as to remove the possibility
of
contaminating my new bird when I eventually got him.
Which I did, and I got him from PetsMart, and I took him to another avian
vet (I was NOT happy with what the previous one had done after the necropsy and
will NEVER go back) for a well bird checkup. And he IS healthy, and he and the
lovebird will be going back in about a year for another checkup to insure that
they REMAIN healthy.
As soon as you got home you should have called your avian vet, told him that
you had just purchased a new bird and that you have a 14 day "grace" period in
which to return him IF he is not healthy. And that you would like to schedule
an appointment AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, IF not sooner.
The reason your bird died is because YOU delayed in getting a checkup for
him, that more then likely then not have shown you what he had and whether or
not it was something that YOU could treat, or IF you'd been better off returning
the bird to PetsMart for a refund. With which you could have gone looking for
another bird elsewhere.
DC
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| Digital_Cowboy |
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"Rob Davis" <robd216@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:MOSAb.54172$_M.261453@attbi_s54...
| http://home.comcast.net/~robd216/index.html
|
|
Rob,
I also couldn't help but notice that on your web page that you said that
PetsMart DIDN'T provide any documentation as this shows from your web page:
PetsMart did NOT provide any documentation that the bird was healthy at the time
of purchase...
Did YOU ask PetsMart for such documentation??? If not WHY not???
DC
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| peneny@earthlink.net |
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 18:52:19 GMT, "Rob" <robd_63@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
><peneny@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:mjm8tvsc94o2rri9pbtc3nd7r9v72h3naq@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 09:15:08 GMT, "Rob" <robd_63@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> According to you you've had birds for eleven years. When does one stop
>> being a novice? IMO you weren't a novice bird owner, but an ignorant
>> one. Why didn't you take a little time in those eleven years to
>> educate yourself?
>>
>
>If think owning a parakeet for 11 years moves a person beyond the "novice"
>status, you are mistaken. Working on a single cylinder lawn mower engine
>does not qualify one to tune a Ferrari engine. We only had the conure for 1
>1/2 years.
>
Okay. How long does one have to own a bird before they advance to the
experienced stage. The basics are the same for a conure as they are an
Eclectus. I see you managed to find the LOV after the fact. Why didn't
you spend the time before and join the Eclectus Connection mailing
list? If you had you could 've bought a weaned baby for $750.
|
|
|
| Rob |
<peneny@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:981atvs0qrvle1o8msklhh8umjmgqv0ru6@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 18:52:19 GMT, "Rob" <robd_63@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Okay. How long does one have to own a bird before they advance to the
> experienced stage. The basics are the same for a conure as they are an
> Eclectus. I see you managed to find the LOV after the fact. Why didn't
> you spend the time before and join the Eclectus Connection mailing
> list? If you had you could 've bought a weaned baby for $750.
>
I do admit to not doing everything "by the book" but I wasn't aware that a
"book" was available, so to speak. We went in to PetsMart. We fell in love
with this particular bird, because when we held him, he said "hello" to us
and was very friendly towards us. Knowing how quickly birds disappear from
that particular store, we decided to buy him right away. We knew nothing
about Eclectus parrots but we felt comfortable that we could give him a good
home. We didn't even know what a healthy Eclectus male looked like until
after his first vet visit and we started checking up on things. If you saw
the pics taken a week after we got him compared to pics of a healthy bird,
there is no comparison. They look totally different. Also, PetsMart
employees did not mention the 14 day guarantee to us, but they did say that
the bird will live 50-100 years. That is something else we argued in
court...though they had a written guarantee, there was also an oral, implied
guarantee put in place when they said how long the bird will live. We knew
we had a poor court case but we needed to make an attempt.
PetsMart management kept telling us after he died that they couldn't do
anything. Anyone in business knows that you can push aside your policies and
rules in certain cases, to "make things right". I didn't ask for
reimbursement of vet bills, just a replacement bird. That would've cost them
$700 or so from their breeder...maybe less because of the volume they
purchase. We were willing to accept a slightly less expensive bird, if that
was all they could do. They just kept saying "no...we can't do anything". We
didn't decide to take them to court right after the bird died, because for
two or three weeks, they were checking to see if there was anything they
could do for us. If it were a relatively inexpensive bird, we probably
would've just tried to eat the cost, but this was an expensive bird.
We learned the hard way, but we learned. There's no use in telling us that
we were wrong, because we already know that we should've had him checked
out. PetsMart shouldn't be absolved of blame in this case either.
|
|
|
| Kimberlee |
Frankly, I won't buy a bird from a pet store; only from a breeder whose
aviary I have seen.
I know some truly outstanding breeders and just cringe when I see the care
and quality attention (or the lack thereof) pet shop birds are given.
~Kimberlee
"Rob Davis" <robd216@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:MOSAb.54172$_M.261453@attbi_s54...
: http://home.comcast.net/~robd216/index.html
:
:
|
|
|
| Joanne |
"Kimberlee" <Kimberlee@delete~to~SENDMAILhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1070935337.539277@prawn...
> Frankly, I won't buy a bird from a pet store; only from a breeder whose
> aviary I have seen.
> I know some truly outstanding breeders and just cringe when I see the care
> and quality attention (or the lack thereof) pet shop birds are given.
> ~Kimberlee
I see it as a pre-school full of kids from as many different homes; some
clean with attention to heath care, some not so. How long does it take for
the contagious diseases to make their way through the population of
students, even if the school takes good care of them, their needs and
sanitation? And if the school is less attentive, how fast does disease
spread?
The point is, there may be degrees of acceleration of the spread, but sooner
or later the disease will spread. The school can't monitor every child's
health circumstances until it is evident they are ill.
--
Sincerely,
Joanne
If it's right for you, then it's right, . . . . . for you!!!
Play - http://www.jobird.com
Pay for Play - http://www.jobird.com/refund.htm
Looking for Love? - http://www.jobird.com/hearts.htm
|
|
|
| Rob |
Thank you Joanne...that's the main point I've been trying to make here. If
you want to buy your food & supplies from PetsMart, go ahead...but buy your
live pets elsewhere.
Rob
"Joanne" <Joanne@jobirdnest.com> wrote in message
news:PBaBb.4564$_r6.2037@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> I see it as a pre-school full of kids from as many different homes; some
> clean with attention to heath care, some not so. How long does it take
for
> the contagious diseases to make their way through the population of
> students, even if the school takes good care of them, their needs and
> sanitation? And if the school is less attentive, how fast does disease
> spread?
>
> The point is, there may be degrees of acceleration of the spread, but
sooner
> or later the disease will spread. The school can't monitor every child's
> health circumstances until it is evident they are ill.
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Joanne
>
> If it's right for you, then it's right, . . . . . for you!!!
>
> Play - http://www.jobird.com
> Pay for Play - http://www.jobird.com/refund.htm
> Looking for Love? - http://www.jobird.com/hearts.htm
>
>
|
|
|
| Digital_Cowboy |
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"Rob" <robd216@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:B3bBb.276561$Dw6.949283@attbi_s02...
| Thank you Joanne...that's the main point I've been trying to make here. If
| you want to buy your food & supplies from PetsMart, go ahead...but buy your
| live pets elsewhere.
|
| Rob
|
Rob,
Actually you KNEW that you had a 14 day window in which to return the bird
IF it proved to be sick, and yet YOU waited 5 weeks to get a well bird exam for
it. WHY the bloody hell did you wait so long when you knew that there was a 14
day return policy???
HAD you gotten the bird a well bird exam prior to the 14 day return period
expiring then you COULD have taken the bird back with a report from the vet as
to what exactly was wrong with the bird. But NO, you wait until FIVE BLOODY
weeks AFTER you purchased the bird to take it in for a checkup.
All I can ask is what I have been asking all along, why the bloody hell did
you wait so long??? And DID you ask them for any and all documentation
pertaining to that particular bird? If you did and they told you that you that
they didn't have it, then why did you purchase it?
Why do you keep blaming PetsMart for "knowingly" selling you an ill bird,
when you had had ample time to take it for a checkup within the return period?
DC
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| Kim/Dreamspinner3 |
Can I ask why you waited five weeks before you took the parrot to the
vet?
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 09:15:08 GMT, "Rob" <robd_63@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Our avian vet saw the bird 5 weeks after we bought him. I have photos taken
>5 days after he came home with us showing severe feather depigmentation,
>which our vet said is a sign of stress/illness...and it doesn;t show up
>overnight.
|
|
|
| Humanhere2 |
> Also, PetsMart
>employees did not mention the 14 day guarantee to us, but they did say that
>the bird will live 50-100 years.
I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your eclectus.
What was the final diagnosis for the bird? What did the bird die from?
Necropsy?
Also, you say they didn't mention the 14 day guarantee to you. Didn't you read
and sign the Pet Sales Record & Purchaser Contract? On the back of said
document it details the 14 day guarantee - as well as recommends seeking a
veterinarian consultation.
Again, I am sorry for your loss. If the store is not caring for the animals
properly -- please contact animal control.
Take care,
Maggie
|
|
|
| Digital_Cowboy |
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"Kim/Dreamspinner3" <dreamspinner3@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:t9t1vvkk9p3jejkubdgmhajpkvo45h948h@4ax.com...
| Just what did the bird die from? Did you have a necropsy done?
|
| On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 04:08:12 GMT, "Rob Davis" <robd216@comcast.net>
| wrote:
|
| >http://home.comcast.net/~robd216/index.html
| >
|
Kim,
By his own admission he did NOT get a necropsy, as he had already amassed
$500.00 in vet bills. . .
And considering that he already has TWO birds in his household and he has
NOT said whether or not he followed any kind of quarantine period when he
brought his new bird home.
I would have to say that:
a) NOT getting a necropsy when the bird passed was a foolish decision
b) NOT quarantining the new bird away from the old ones is/was also a very
foolish thing to do (presuming of course that he DIDN'T quarantine the new bird)
When my 'tiel passed away I gladly shelled out the $40.00 for a necropsy.
It is a small price to pay for piece of mind, as well as knowing that my
lovebird was safe.
DC
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|
|
| Rob |
"Digital_Cowboy" <nobody@nobody.com> wrote in message
news:zUcBb.377214$pT1.235875@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
>
> That is what I would LIKE to know. Rob, why the bloody hell did you
wait 5
> wks BEFORE getting it checked by an avian vet??? PLEASE tell us, esp. as
you've
> said that you had a 14 day window in which to return it???
>
> DC
Because I did not know any better. Very simple. We never had our other two
birds checked right after we bought them either. Our parakeet has NEVER been
to a vet. Our Sun Conure was checked about 2 months after purchase.
Not every buyer is as informed as they should be. Or maybe I should rephrase
that to say that some buyers are more gullable than others. But I've
learned...the hard way.
|
|
|
| Rob |
"Humanhere2" <humanhere2@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031209001307.01735.00000422@mb-m20.aol.com...
> > Also, PetsMart
> >employees did not mention the 14 day guarantee to us, but they did say
that
> >the bird will live 50-100 years.
>
> I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your eclectus.
> What was the final diagnosis for the bird? What did the bird die from?
> Necropsy?
>
> Also, you say they didn't mention the 14 day guarantee to you. Didn't you
read
> and sign the Pet Sales Record & Purchaser Contract? On the back of said
> document it details the 14 day guarantee - as well as recommends seeking a
> veterinarian consultation.
>
> Again, I am sorry for your loss. If the store is not caring for the
animals
> properly -- please contact animal control.
>
> Take care,
> Maggie
Hi Maggie,
We never received a copy of anything, other than a credit card receipt. We
did sign a form stating that we were aware that the bird was off of hand
feeding (as we were told that by the sales clerk)...of course, they produced
that in court. That's a great place to put the guarantee info and vet
consultation suggestion...on the back of a form that you only sign the front
of. Isn't that some sort of deception? I thought your signature had to be
AFTER all of the wording of a contract. It doesn't surprise me one bit.
Well...it's done and over with. Nothing will bring him back but I won't make
the same mistake twice.
Thanks.
Rob
|
|
|
| Shawna |
Rob,
It is upsetting and very sad that Sherbert has died... I am genuinely
sorry for your loss. But to place such vicious and general blame upon
the retail outlet is really uncalled for (and no, I DO NOT WORK THERE,
before you come back to say that I simply must if I am brazen enough
to defend them). And to attack anyone who does not agree with this
blame is childish. You dared to claim on another board that you
probably take better care of your birds than another poster does for
his or her children. That is not a claim made by a reasonable man, and
I lost all respect for the statements you were making at the moment I
read that. You are understandably upset by the death of your parrot,
but to make such a broad sweeping statement that all PetsMarts are bad
and then to personally attack those who ask for evidence of this is
petty. I know, I know... you are now accepting that you did not take
responsible action when you got this bird. But your web page certainly
barely implies this, and your confrontational attitude just begs for a
terse reply. Don't come into a pet bird group and not expect to be
questioned about this bird's death when you had ample time to get it
checked. You've already said now that it was your fault as well... but
I just can't help but go over this again after all of the animosity
you have shown here. Vindictive, I know. But I'm not the one who made
a web page detailing how horrible PetsMart is, so I don't really have
to defend my position. You do have to defend your position, after
making such a bold claim. And if you didn't expect such a response
after posting your webpage and then your hateful responses to this and
other groups, you really do deserve all of the harsh responses here as
another learning experience.
You admit that you were an inexperienced bird owner... and yet later
you say that you have kept a "rare parakeet" and a sun conure for
years and that they are healthy (as if to imply that you are indeed
experienced?). As I said before, you made a claim that you provide
them with better care than a certain poster does for his or her
children, so you must believe in some way that you are an experienced
and thoughtful bird owner.
With the purchase of ANY live animal, it is solely your responsibility
to care for that animal when you bring it home. That is just simply
and absolutely your responsibility, and the retailer should not have
to state the obvious and guide your hand by telling you to take the
time to learn! It is just understood!! Especially when you have just
invested $1500 in the animal that you admit you know little about. I
have bought pets on a whim before, because they captured my heart just
as Sherbert captured yours, but I have always been sure to learn all
that I can about them as soon as possible. We can't just trust that
all will be well forever because we paid money for the animal... that
is an unrealistic expectation, whether from breeder or from pet store.
I just can't fathom that in all the weeks you had that bird before
you took it to the vet, you never once looked at pictures of healthy
Eclectus parrots and saw that your bird was obviously ill. You
admitted that... and yet you still place so much blame on the store!!!
True, you admit that you were inexperienced, but my goodness, man,
just consider how ludicrous this all sounds to the bird owners you are
trying to appeal to with you anti-PetsMart campaign!
Did you actually consider the claim that the bird COULD live 50-100
years to be an "oral contract" for its health? That must have almost
drawn a laugh in the courtroom if you presented that as evidence. I
have just discovered, in a mere 20 seconds of reading in a very basic
book of bird species, that the average lifespan for an Eclectus parrot
is 30 years. Whether or not this is true, I can't say (because I don't
plan to buy an Eclectus and thus haven't learned much about them), but
I would have to be foolish to believe an employee's claim that the
bird could live 50-100 years (gee, that is a very broad range, isn't
it?) to be an oral contract implying good health. The clerk was wrong
to imply that the bird might live as long as 100 years, which if
possible would certainly be rare... but you were very silly to believe
it so much that you considered it a health guarantee.
Yes, these chains are trying to make money. But you know that when you
enter them... obviously their animals are overpriced when compared to
a breeder.
Yes, the stores are often staffed with teens who may or may not know
what they are doing, but when you walk in the door, do you not SEE
that this is so? If the store admits that the last time the bird was
tested was 6 months previous, is it not obvious that you should take
it to a vet very soon to have it checked? You surely realized that the
bird was in a store full of other birds and customers who were
touching and holding it just as you did when you fell in love with
him... it was no secret... and yet you still bought the bird and then
waited five weeks to take it to a vet. You had 35 whole days there to
learn enough about these birds to see that it was sick. If you knew
nothing about Eclectus parrots and bought the bird on a whim, you
should have immediately gotten some literature (there were probably
books and magazines located in the very store from which you bought
the bird)!! Looked on the internet!! Asked other bird owners about
them!! You would have noticed very quickly that your bird had
pigmentation problems which indicated malnutrition or illness. You
would have learned that Eclectus parrots are sometimes difficult to
wean and some individuals must be hand-fed for a long time. I know
that, and I have never even considered buying an Eclectus... it was
simply something I picked up when learning about my other birds in a
very basic popular bird care magazine. Did you not ask about a
guarantee at the time of purchase? And if so, after learning it was 14
days, why on earth would you wait to take it to be checked after
investing so much money? The bird died 70 days after it left the
store... that is an awfully long time for a bird to be sick. And for
half of that time, you did not even realize it because you didn't
bother to learn about these birds... how can you still place such
venomous blame on the store? What DID the bird die of? I guess we
won't know, because there was no necropsy.
If the bird did indeed have the pigmentation issues only five days
after purchase, then he probably WAS sick at the time of purchase, or
at least not completely healthy. It is true that the store should have
recognized this. But this is something that YOU, as the bird's new
owner, could have easily learned in only an afternoon's reading of a
handbook or at a trip to the vet's office for a well-bird check... and
PetsMart did have a return policy which would have covered your
purchase had you discovered this and taken the bird to the vet at that
time. But you waited five whole weeks... which is a terribly long time
for a bird to be sick without you realizing it. You seem to know much
about how birds hide their ilnesses (or so you rudely rebutted to
another poster)... but this bird was NOT hiding its illness if it had
obvious depigmentation and was, as you said, a finicky eater as well.
The feathers alone are an obvious indication of a problem.
What would have satisfied you, in retrospect, at the time of purchase?
If the staff had told you to have the bird checked by a vet
immediately, and you had still waited for five weeks, would you still
place blame upon the store? If they had pointed you toward their
selection of bird care books, and encouraged you to buy one, would you
still place blame? If they had admitted what should have been obvious,
that they are staffed by young inexperienced help, would you still
place blame? If they had told you the truth, that you must take
responsibilty for the live animals you purchase and must learn all you
can about them when you take them home, would you still place blame?
If they had admitted that they don't provide as much attention and
care to their animals as a breeder would, would you still place such
blame? You shouldn't, because these things are OBVIOUS when you are
buying a bird from a chain pet store!!!
Just as you pay way too much money, you are also running an obvious
risk that the birds have been in contact with other birds, with
customers, and especially with customers who might have sick birds at
home. So you see, I am not leaving the stores blameless. They are
probably not the best place to buy birds, for obvious reasons. But
your campaign to educate the public is not going to come across very
well, given the fact that you had the bird for a full 35 days before
you took it to a vet and 70 days before its death. And it is
especially going to ring false when you personally attack (with
childish vulgarity) those who question your sweeping generalisation.
It makes you sound silly. And you are just asking for bird owners to
blast you for your inexperience if you post such a story in a group
like this!!!
Again, I am very sorry about the bird. It is a shame that he died so
young. But don't be so quick to blame others in such a public manner
when the only "proof" you have is that your bird must have been sick
at the time of purchase... this falls flat when you didn't even take
it to the vet. It is completely possible that the bird only had a
nutitional deficiency or some other stress when you bought it, just
enough to depigment the feathers, and that with proper knowledge and
immediate care he might have lived. There is no way to go back and
prove anything now, when you neglected to take action. No wonder you
lost the court case... PetsMart is not obligated to give you any
compensation, and I don't believe that they deserve your hateful
propaganda. And those who question your actions (which you stated in
such a public forum for all to examine) don't deserve your hateful
remarks. You probably also didn't really deserve all of my rude
comments here, but you have been asking for it with your poor attitude
in responses here and elsewhere and your bold claim of the "TRUTH
about PetsMart." The truth is that we will not know exactly who to
blame for your bird's death, and you certainly can't claim to know.
And I hope that you have your other birds checked, just in case
Sherbert might have had a communicable disease that was passed on to
them. The picture on your webpage of the Eclectus next to the sun
conure is sticking in my mind.
|
|
|
| Toucanldy |
>From: "Rob" robd216@comcast.net
>We never received a copy of anything, other than a credit card receipt. We
>did sign a form stating that we were aware that the bird was off of hand
>feeding (as we were told that by the sales clerk)...of course, they produced
>that in court.
Okay now, I have to assume from this info, that the bird starved to death, and
that is why you didn't get a necropsy. Some birds revert back to hand feeding,
when going to a new owner. You also said that the bird was a picky eater,
another indicator that the bird was not getting sufficient nutrition. Just from
that observation alone, you should have realized something was wrong. Was he
also crying a lot?
If the bird did, in fact, starve to death, it is not the fault of the store,
but the fault of the uninformed pet owner. It is the pet owner/buyer's
responsibility, when taking on a living being, to become informed, as to the
particular needs of that being, before
the purchase. It is not the seller's responsibility to spoon feed the buyer.
That's why there are so many law suits clogging up the court systems.
Not everything is black and white, in a contract, some things are implied, and
are subject to interpretation.
Just my take on this.
Regards
|
|
|
| VP Maggs |
>That's a great place to put the guarantee info and vet
>consultation suggestion...on the back of a form that you only sign the front
>of. Isn't that some sort of deception?
You have to read and initial the back of the form. It specifically states that
the details of the 14 day guarantee are on the back of the paper -- and that
you should initial it after reading.
Take care,
Maggie
|
|
|
| Steve |
"Rob" <robd216@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:tX7Bb.339363$9E1.1652876@attbi_s52...
>
>
> I do admit to not doing everything "by the book" but I wasn't aware that a
> "book" was available, so to speak. We went in to PetsMart. We fell in love
> with this particular bird, because when we held him, he said "hello" to us
> and was very friendly towards us. Knowing how quickly birds disappear from
> that particular store, we decided to buy him right away. We knew nothing
An impulse buy.
When you say birds disappear from this store so quickly, just what is
"quickly" too you? I ask because you said earlier that the bird had been
there about 6 months. "From what I was told, the bird was tested when it
came from the breeder, which was over 6 months prior to our purchase."
> about Eclectus parrots but we felt comfortable that we could give him a
good
> home. We didn't even know what a healthy Eclectus male looked like until
> after his first vet visit and we started checking up on things. If you saw
Animals do make great impulse buys don't they? Especially when you know
nothing about what you are purchasing and then don't put any effort into
learning anything for five weeks.
> the pics taken a week after we got him compared to pics of a healthy bird,
> there is no comparison. They look totally different. Also, PetsMart
> employees did not mention the 14 day guarantee to us, but they did say
that
> the bird will live 50-100 years. That is something else we argued in
> court...though they had a written guarantee, there was also an oral,
implied
> guarantee put in place when they said how long the bird will live.
"though they had a written guarantee," But you keep insisting that they
didn't.
> We knew
> we had a poor court case but we needed to make an attempt.
>
Why? YOU killed your bird. Petsmart should be suing you for negligently
caring for the animal they allowed you to purchase. That would make more
sense than your case did.
> PetsMart management kept telling us after he died that they couldn't do
> anything. Anyone in business knows that you can push aside your policies
and
> rules in certain cases, to "make things right".
Yes, in cases where they hold some degree of fault. That does not explain
why petsmart should do anything for you.
> I didn't ask for
> reimbursement of vet bills, just a replacement bird. That would've cost
them
> $700 or so from their breeder...maybe less because of the volume they
You ****ed up and want someone else to pay for it.
> purchase. We were willing to accept a slightly less expensive bird, if
that
> was all they could do. They just kept saying "no...we can't do anything".
We
Which was the right thing for them to do.
> didn't decide to take them to court right after the bird died, because for
> two or three weeks, they were checking to see if there was anything they
> could do for us.
I doubt they were doing anything but waiting for you to go away.
> If it were a relatively inexpensive bird, we probably
> would've just tried to eat the cost, but this was an expensive bird.
>
See, it all boils down to your lost money. If it were a budgie you'd accept
blame, but since it cost you a lot of money to kill that bird you may as
well try to get someone else to pay for it.
> We learned the hard way, but we learned. There's no use in telling us that
> we were wrong, because we already know that we should've had him checked
> out.
I doubt you learned a God damned thing.
> PetsMart shouldn't be absolved of blame in this case either.
Only because they have no blame to be absolved of.
--
Steve
|
|
|
| Joe |
It takes a big man like Steve to publicly bash someone and then hide behind
a fake e-mail address.
You, sir, are an idiot.
"Steve" <mister(yepthatsme)jynx@hootmail.com> wrote in message
news:c3a5d1a2d698a36f427e6f986a5ef844@news.teranews.com...
>
> "Rob" <robd216@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:tX7Bb.339363$9E1.1652876@attbi_s52...
> >
> >
> > I do admit to not doing everything "by the book" but I wasn't aware that
a
> > "book" was available, so to speak. We went in to PetsMart. We fell in
love
> > with this particular bird, because when we held him, he said "hello" to
us
> > and was very friendly towards us. Knowing how quickly birds disappear
from
> > that particular store, we decided to buy him right away. We knew nothing
>
> An impulse buy.
>
> When you say birds disappear from this store so quickly, just what is
> "quickly" too you? I ask because you said earlier that the bird had been
> there about 6 months. "From what I was told, the bird was tested when it
> came from the breeder, which was over 6 months prior to our purchase."
>
>
> > about Eclectus parrots but we felt comfortable that we could give him a
> good
> > home. We didn't even know what a healthy Eclectus male looked like until
> > after his first vet visit and we started checking up on things. If you
saw
>
> Animals do make great impulse buys don't they? Especially when you know
> nothing about what you are purchasing and then don't put any effort into
> learning anything for five weeks.
>
>
> > the pics taken a week after we got him compared to pics of a healthy
bird,
> > there is no comparison. They look totally different. Also, PetsMart
> > employees did not mention the 14 day guarantee to us, but they did say
> that
> > the bird will live 50-100 years. That is something else we argued in
> > court...though they had a written guarantee, there was also an oral,
> implied
> > guarantee put in place when they said how long the bird will live.
>
> "though they had a written guarantee," But you keep insisting that they
> didn't.
>
>
> > We knew
> > we had a poor court case but we needed to make an attempt.
> >
>
> Why? YOU killed your bird. Petsmart should be suing you for negligently
> caring for the animal they allowed you to purchase. That would make more
> sense than your case did.
>
>
> > PetsMart management kept telling us after he died that they couldn't do
> > anything. Anyone in business knows that you can push aside your policies
> and
> > rules in certain cases, to "make things right".
>
> Yes, in cases where they hold some degree of fault. That does not explain
> why petsmart should do anything for you.
>
>
> > I didn't ask for
> > reimbursement of vet bills, just a replacement bird. That would've cost
> them
> > $700 or so from their breeder...maybe less because of the volume they
>
> You ****ed up and want someone else to pay for it.
>
> > purchase. We were willing to accept a slightly less expensive bird, if
> that
> > was all they could do. They just kept saying "no...we can't do
anything".
> We
>
> Which was the right thing for them to do.
>
> > didn't decide to take them to court right after the bird died, because
for
> > two or three weeks, they were checking to see if there was anything they
> > could do for us.
>
> I doubt they were doing anything but waiting for you to go away.
>
> > If it were a relatively inexpensive bird, we probably
> > would've just tried to eat the cost, but this was an expensive bird.
> >
>
> See, it all boils down to your lost money. If it were a budgie you'd
accept
> blame, but since it cost you a lot of money to kill that bird you may as
> well try to get someone else to pay for it.
>
> > We learned the hard way, but we learned. There's no use in telling us
that
> > we were wrong, because we already know that we should've had him checked
> > out.
>
> I doubt you learned a God damned thing.
>
> > PetsMart shouldn't be absolved of blame in this case either.
>
> Only because they have no blame to be absolved of.
>
>
> --
> Steve
>
>
>
>
|
|
|
| Digital_Cowboy |
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"Shawna" <yodergoat@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:16f2f9ad.0312082257.1d54a8a@posting.google.com...
| Rob,
| It is upsetting and very sad that Sherbert has died... I am genuinely
| sorry for your loss. But to place such vicious and general blame upon
| the retail outlet is really uncalled for (and no, I DO NOT WORK THERE,
| before you come back to say that I simply must if I am brazen enough
| to defend them). And to attack anyone who does not agree with this
| blame is childish. You dared to claim on another board that you
| probably take better care of your birds than another poster does for
| his or her children.
And in another posting he has admitted that he hasn't (until recently) taken
either of his birds to an avian vet. . .So I would like to know how he can make
the claim that he takes better care of his other birds then that other poster
did/does his children???
That is not a claim made by a reasonable man, and
| I lost all respect for the statements you were making at the moment I
| read that. You are understandably upset by the death of your parrot,
| but to make such a broad sweeping statement that all PetsMarts are bad
| and then to personally attack those who ask for evidence of this is
| petty. I know, I know... you are now accepting that you did not take
| responsible action when you got this bird. But your web page certainly
| barely implies this, and your confrontational attitude just begs for a
| terse reply. Don't come into a pet bird group and not expect to be
| questioned about this bird's death when you had ample time to get it
| checked. You've already said now that it was your fault as well... but
| I just can't help but go over this again after all of the animosity
| you have shown here. Vindictive, I know. But I'm not the one who made
| a web page detailing how horrible PetsMart is, so I don't really have
| to defend my position. You do have to defend your position, after
| making such a bold claim. And if you didn't expect such a response
| after posting your webpage and then your hateful responses to this and
| other groups, you really do deserve all of the harsh responses here as
| another learning experience.
|
| You admit that you were an inexperienced bird owner... and yet later
| you say that you have kept a "rare parakeet" and a sun conure for
| years and that they are healthy (as if to imply that you are indeed
| experienced?). As I said before, you made a claim that you provide
| them with better care than a certain poster does for his or her
| children, so you must believe in some way that you are an experienced
| and thoughtful bird owner.
And uh, correct me IF I'm mistaken, but doesn't an experienced and
thoughtful bird or pet owner IN general take their animals to see the vet???
|
| With the purchase of ANY live animal, it is solely your responsibility
He's just trying to pass the buck for his own neglect, and is getting mad
that he isn't getting more support/sympathy from anyone here. That HE more
likely then PetsMart is uh gee let me think. . .RESPONSIBLE for the death of his
bird. I mean he waited 5 wks BEFORE taking it to a vet AFTER purchase.
| to care for that animal when you bring it home. That is just simply
| and absolutely your responsibility, and the retailer should not have
| to state the obvious and guide your hand by telling you to take the
| time to learn! It is just understood!! Especially when you have just
| invested $1500 in the animal that you admit you know little about. I
| have bought pets on a whim before, because they captured my heart just
| as Sherbert captured yours, but I have always been sure to learn all
| that I can about them as soon as possible. We can't just trust that
| all will be well forever because we paid money for the animal... that
| is an unrealistic expectation, whether from breeder or from pet store.
| I just can't fathom that in all the weeks you had that bird before
| you took it to the vet, you never once looked at pictures of healthy
| Eclectus parrots and saw that your bird was obviously ill. You
| admitted that... and yet you still place so much blame on the store!!!
| True, you admit that you were inexperienced, but my goodness, man,
| just consider how ludicrous this all sounds to the bird owners you are
| trying to appeal to with you anti-PetsMart campaign!
|
| Did you actually consider the claim that the bird COULD live 50-100
| years to be an "oral contract" for its health? That must have almost
| drawn a laugh in the courtroom if you presented that as evidence. I
| have just discovered, in a mere 20 seconds of reading in a very basic
| book of bird species, that the average lifespan for an Eclectus parrot
| is 30 years. Whether or not this is true, I can't say (because I don't
| plan to buy an Eclectus and thus haven't learned much about them), but
| I would have to be foolish to believe an employee's claim that the
| bird could live 50-100 years (gee, that is a very broad range, isn't
| it?) to be an oral contract implying good health. The clerk was wrong
| to imply that the bird might live as long as 100 years, which if
| possible would certainly be rare... but you were very silly to believe
| it so much that you considered it a health guarantee.
|
| Yes, these chains are trying to make money. But you know that when you
| enter them... obviously their animals are overpriced when compared to
| a breeder.
| Yes, the stores are often staffed with teens who may or may not know
| what they are doing, but when you walk in the door, do you not SEE
| that this is so? If the store admits that the last time the bird was
| tested was 6 months previous, is it not obvious that you should take
| it to a vet very soon to have it checked? You surely realized that the
| bird was in a store full of other birds and customers who were
| touching and holding it just as you did when you fell in love with
| him... it was no secret... and yet you still bought the bird and then
| waited five weeks to take it to a vet. You had 35 whole days there to
| learn enough about these birds to see that it was sick. If you knew
| nothing about Eclectus parrots and bought the bird on a whim, you
| should have immediately gotten some literature (there were probably
| books and magazines located in the very store from which you bought
| the bird)!! Looked on the internet!! Asked other bird owners about
| them!! You would have noticed very quickly that your bird had
| pigmentation problems which indicated malnutrition or illness. You
| would have learned that Eclectus parrots are sometimes difficult to
| wean and some individuals must be hand-fed for a long time. I know
| that, and I have never even considered buying an Eclectus... it was
| simply something I picked up when learning about my other birds in a
| very basic popular bird care magazine. Did you not ask about a
| guarantee at the time of purchase? And if so, after learning it was 14
| days, why on earth would you wait to take it to be checked after
| investing so much money? The bird died 70 days after it left the
| store... that is an awfully long time for a bird to be sick. And for
| half of that time, you did not even realize it because you didn't
| bother to learn about these birds... how can you still place such
| venomous blame on the store? What DID the bird die of? I guess we
| won't know, because there was no necropsy.
|
| If the bird did indeed have the pigmentation issues only five days
| after purchase, then he probably WAS sick at the time of purchase, or
| at least not completely healthy. It is true that the store should have
| recognized this. But this is something that YOU, as the bird's new
| owner, could have easily learned in only an afternoon's reading of a
| handbook or at a trip to the vet's office for a well-bird check... and
| PetsMart did have a return policy which would have covered your
| purchase had you discovered this and taken the bird to the vet at that
| time. But you waited five whole weeks... which is a terribly long time
| for a bird to be sick without you realizing it. You seem to know much
| about how birds hide their ilnesses (or so you rudely rebutted to
| another poster)... but this bird was NOT hiding its illness if it had
| obvious depigmentation and was, as you said, a finicky eater as well.
| The feathers alone are an obvious indication of a problem.
|
|
| What would have satisfied you, in retrospect, at the time of purchase?
| If the staff had told you to have the bird checked by a vet
| immediately, and you had still waited for five weeks, would you still
| place blame upon the store? If they had pointed you toward their
| selection of bird care books, and encouraged you to buy one, would you
| still place blame? If they had admitted what should have been obvious,
| that they are staffed by young inexperienced help, would you still
| place blame? If they had told you the truth, that you must take
| responsibilty for the live animals you purchase and must learn all you
| can about them when you take them home, would you still place blame?
| If they had admitted that they don't provide as much attention and
| care to their animals as a breeder would, would you still place such
| blame? You shouldn't, because these things are OBVIOUS when you are
| buying a bird from a chain pet store!!!
| Just as you pay way too much money, you are also running an obvious
| risk that the birds have been in contact with other birds, with
| customers, and especially with customers who might have sick birds at
| home. So you see, I am not leaving the stores blameless. They are
| probably not the best place to buy birds, for obvious reasons. But
| your campaign to educate the public is not going to come across very
| well, given the fact that you had the bird for a full 35 days before
| you took it to a vet and 70 days before its death. And it is
| especially going to ring false when you personally attack (with
| childish vulgarity) those who question your sweeping generalisation.
| It makes you sound silly. And you are just asking for bird owners to
| blast you for your inexperience if you post such a story in a group
| like this!!!
|
| Again, I am very sorry about the bird. It is a shame that he died so
| young. But don't be so quick to blame others in such a public manner
| when the only "proof" you have is that your bird must have been sick
| at the time of purchase... this falls flat when you didn't even take
| it to the vet. It is completely possible that the bird only had a
| nutitional deficiency or some other stress when you bought it, just
| enough to depigment the feathers, and that with proper knowledge and
| immediate care he might have lived. There is no way to go back and
| prove anything now, when you neglected to take action. No wonder you
| lost the court case... PetsMart is not obligated to give you any
| compensation, and I don't believe that they deserve your hateful
| propaganda. And those who question your actions (which you stated in
| such a public forum for all to examine) don't deserve your hateful
| remarks. You probably also didn't really deserve all of my rude
| comments here, but you have been asking for it with your poor attitude
| in responses here and elsewhere and your bold claim of the "TRUTH
| about PetsMart." The truth is that we will not know exactly who to
| blame for your bird's death, and you certainly can't claim to know.
|
| And I hope that you have your other birds checked, just in case
| Sherbert might have had a communicable disease that was passed on to
| them. The picture on your webpage of the Eclectus next to the sun
| conure is sticking in my mind.
After the 'tiel that I'd had for 11 yrs passed away. I immediately took him
to an avian vet for a necropsy. And had even taken the step of taking his body
out the backdoor. As my lovebird was on our enclosed front porch at the time
and I didn't want to take the chance of exposing him to what might have killed
my 'tiel. And then I made arrangements to have my lovebird examined. NOT by
the same vet because they made the assumption that I did not want my 'tiels body
back and cremated him with a bunch of other animals. . .
I have found another avian vet whom I do like and trust. And after
purchasing another 'tiel (at my local PetsMart) back in the middle of Aug. So
that makes it around 100 days give or take that I've had him and he is healthy
and happy. And he along with my lovebird WILL be seeing the vet on at least a
yearly basis for a well bird checkup.
And ya gee I've noticed that even though on his web page that he has a link
for one to sign his guestbook he DOESN'T have any links for people to view his
guestbook. Guess it's because he doesn't want anyone to see how badly he's been
torn apart for his lack of care.
DC
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| Digital_Cowboy |
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"Lew" <lewthefirst@aol.com> wrote in message
news:vtckk9f8j5gpc3@corp.supernews.com...
| Its also easy to sit behind a keyboard and give your opinion isn't it?
| Who are you to decide what is productive and called for?
|
| The fact is he doesn't know what happened to the bird, so cannot say what it
| died from.
| He has no proof that Petsmart was at fault.
| Actually what he has done with his web site is illegal, and he could be sued
| by Petsmart.
| In fact I think I'll forward a link to site to corporate headquarters and
| see how long the site stays up.
Lew,
Thanks for the idea. I too just forwarded to PetsMart his link as well as
informing them that he is also posting to at least these two NGs. I wonder if
one were to do a Google on Mr. Davis what other groups we'd find he's posting
this to?
DC
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|
| Digital_Cowboy |
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"Rob Davis" <robd216@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:MOSAb.54172$_M.261453@attbi_s54...
| http://home.comcast.net/~robd216/index.html
|
|
Rob,
And how "brave" is it of you to NOT post YOUR own name in your web page
attack on PetsMart??? And it is NOT there, NOR is it in the source code for
your web page. . . Or to post a link for signing a guestbook, BUT not post a
link so that we can read what has been posted in it??? Could it possibly be
because you've been subjected to even more abuse via the web then you have via
the NGS that you've posted to??? Uh, why don't you take your own advice from
the bottom of your own web page:
AND TO THE FEW ANONYMOUS BASHERS ON THE BIRD NEWSGROUPS...GET A CLUE ABOUT
PETSMART...AND BE BRAVE BY POSTING WITH A REAL E-MAIL ADDRESS. YOUR
MEAN-SPIRITED WORDS DON'T MEAN ANYTHING TO ME. I KNOW WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG.
Waiting 5 wks to get a well bird checkup IS wrong. So is YOUR trying to sue
them over the death of a bird that you had had for at least 35 days prior to
taking to a vet for a well bird checkup, and then having had for a total of 70
days it passed away. No matter what you may think of me or all of the other
"anonymous" bashers you do have my sympathy in your loss.
BUT had you done a little research after getting home I think that your bird
would still be alive today. What IF this bird HAD lived and years down the road
it died??? Would you still be trying to smear PetsMart on the web???
And as someone else said to you, is the real reason you didn't have the
necropsy done is not because of the money, but because of your own neglect???
You also claim that others have come out to support you and have had their
own tales of woe with PetsMart, so let's hear a few of them?
DC
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|
|
|
| Rob |
This will be my last post on this issue. I've grown tired of all of the
"experts" on here who post anonymously and attack personally, with fake
e-mail addresses. Here's the full text of the e-mail message I sent to Mr.
Cowboy, which was then rejected because of an inactive mailbox:
Mr. Cowboy,
As you seem to be the expert on this newsgroup, I thought I'd contact you
directly...that is...if this as valid e-mail address. You seem to know
everything about anything avian in nature based on your advice to anyone and
everyone who poses a question. I had two signatures in my guestbook...one
positive, one negative. Newsgroups are havens for negative anonymous
posters. I knew I would get bashed but the word is out about PetsMart, with
over 1000 hits on my site in less than 5 days. And I'll continue to hand out
flyers at the local store.
It's too bad for you that you pay PetsMart's elevated prices for your birds.
And you must like gambling because, even though you haven't lost yet, you're
taking a real chance by buying from them. Here's a few messages (unedited)
I've received about PetsMart:
-----------
"I whole heartedly agree about PetSmart. Here in NC there is a PetSmart that
one day got in a female Ekkie. I asked what subspecies she was..."Ummmm? I
dunno."
I would go visit her and noticed she did not look good. I talked to the
employees about what they fed her, etc. I saw her the one day and she had
feces caked on her vent. I asked them to take her to the vet.
She died at the store. I was devastated.
They wanted 1699.00 for her! Idiots.
I hate PetSmart."
-----------
"Re: Petsmart
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
I go to PetSmart in Union, NJ. That store had a male Eclectus. Although they
did not know what subspecies, I am pretty sure that it was a Vos from the
size of the bird. Anyway, this bird continually squawked. I asked the
employee if I could see the bird. When I handled him I noticed that the bird
was picking its feathers underneath both wings. Also, it was missing his
tail feathers. Even more disturbing was the bottom beak looked as if a piece
of it was missing. I was told that the bird, although 4 1/2 months, could
not eat any pellets and was still being handfed formula. I told the
employee, that it looked as if something is wrong with the beak and that
maybe the reason for him not weaning.
The employee told me that the bird was going to a vet the next day. I went
back the next week to see what happened to the bird. the bird was gone. I
went back again a few weeks later and the bird was not there. When I return,
I will ask what happened to the bird, but I believe that bird was in
trouble. I hope to find out. Unfortunately, although the employees may have
good intentions at PetSmart, the simple fact is that they are not
knowledgeable with birds."
-----------
"regarding petsmart
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
so sorry to hear about your loss....it hurts us all to hear about things
like this as we all love our feathered-family...
petsmart does not set well with me either....we have one locally and I have
wrote to the managers and corporation several times about them and what I
have seen many occasions...
hubbie and I go there often...we alwsy check on the birds as for awhile,
prior to my calls and emails, there would be times that we would see that
there was NO water or food....few days later we would go check and the bowls
had the exact kind of mess in the bowls and the water were exactly as we had
seen the day before with food particles stuck on the same side...same food
stuck on the water bowls so it was obvious that the water was not changed or
at times, there was NO water...and the way it looked, there had not been for
awhile...same witht he food...we would check the bowls often and study them
so we could compare a few days later...then at the grooming dept we seen a
girl groooming a smaller dog which was moving abit and I saw he grab the
back leg and put it out towards her ...it is no wonder that the poor dogs
leg did not break as she pulled it very hard and quick..a fast jerk towards
her in order to get the dog to sit still I guess...I stood there and watched
and she happened to turn around and see me looking at her...then she was all
kissy kissy to the dog..but it was too late...I have compained numerous
times about petsmart and the way the pets are taken care of ...I still go
there and check things out...the birds..and small pets are now all taken
care of really good but I will continue to be the patrol person ....someone
has to watch out for these babies..."
------------
"It is so sad about your Eclectus....I agree with the others ..in
general...about Petsmart....I did have a friend who worked at one in Up
state NY..She is a fid lover...and....she worried all the time about the
heath and safty of all the live animals that the shop handeled....She tried
for a long time to get management to b a little more careful with the
animals...but...she left the store becasue she didn n't feel like she was
getting very far....I honestly do not think that the chains should sell
anything that draws a breath...
SCarlett"
-----------
"Rob , I have alot to say about Petsmart . But am not sure I can put it on
the Message Board. If you would like to chat let me know befor you go. Dont
forget to ask what kind of trainning they give to the kids that work there
...Maney times this is a first job and are good kids that do love pets but
some just need a job and dont care to learn how to treat live animals. And
then there is the training that they dont get that counts . Good luck I wish
you the very best.
Mom of five fids"
-----------
"Petsmart
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Am so sorry thing didnt go well for you. I wish I had the answer for you but
I have seen alot of people take on Petsmart and not win. Even the mangers
that worked there. Its sad no one will listen. My heart goes out to you.
(and the live pets at the stores) I think you did a great thing by letting
others know. If we dont know we cant pass it on."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm done posting to the newgroups on this matter. It serves no purpose to
provide armchair experts like you a reason to spout off. Yeah...you took
your dead bird to the vet. Good for you. That 11 years of experience really
went far. Your bird died and you shouldn't have let that happen. You're a
know-it-all and you should've known your bird was ill.
Rob
So...for all of you armchair judges and experts out there...keep up the good
work...and get a life.
"Digital_Cowboy" <Nobody@nobody.com> wrote in message
news:o1tBb.384029$pT1.294016@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> "Rob Davis" <robd216@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:MOSAb.54172$_M.261453@attbi_s54...
> | http://home.comcast.net/~robd216/index.html
> |
> |
>
> Rob,
>
> And how "brave" is it of you to NOT post YOUR own name in your web
page
> attack on PetsMart??? And it is NOT there, NOR is it in the source code
for
> your web page. . . Or to post a link for signing a guestbook, BUT not
post a
> link so that we can read what has been posted in it??? Could it possibly
be
> because you've been subjected to even more abuse via the web then you have
via
> the NGS that you've posted to??? Uh, why don't you take your own advice
from
> the bottom of your own web page:
>
> AND TO THE FEW ANONYMOUS BASHERS ON THE BIRD NEWSGROUPS...GET A CLUE ABOUT
> PETSMART...AND BE BRAVE BY POSTING WITH A REAL E-MAIL ADDRESS. YOUR
> MEAN-SPIRITED WORDS DON'T MEAN ANYTHING TO ME. I KNOW WHAT IS RIGHT AND
WRONG.
>
> Waiting 5 wks to get a well bird checkup IS wrong. So is YOUR trying
to sue
> them over the death of a bird that you had had for at least 35 days prior
to
> taking to a vet for a well bird checkup, and then having had for a total
of 70
> days it passed away. No matter what you may think of me or all of the
other
> "anonymous" bashers you do have my sympathy in your loss.
>
> BUT had you done a little research after getting home I think that
your bird
> would still be alive today. What IF this bird HAD lived and years down
the road
> it died??? Would you still be trying to smear PetsMart on the web???
>
> And as someone else said to you, is the real reason you didn't have
the
> necropsy done is not because of the money, but because of your own
neglect???
>
> You also claim that others have come out to support you and have had
their
> own tales of woe with PetsMart, so let's hear a few of them?
>
> DC
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|
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| oldmolly |
"Joe" <jhands@att.net> wrote in message
news:oAqBb.69473$_M.345872@attbi_s54...
> It takes a big man like Steve to publicly bash someone and then hide
behind
> a fake e-mail address.
>
> You, sir, are an idiot.
>
It isn't often I agree with Jynx, but I do so wholeheartedly this time.
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